Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 197
# 11
01-13-2013, 06:49 AM
For me, yes, very, much yes.

For you...you sound like you need a break, man. Go play other mmos or games, may youll find a grind you can enjoy.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 44
# 12
01-13-2013, 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshicus View Post
I have ample "capacity to comprehend" that it's a line of thought that's just plain ridiculous. Yes, MMOs use progress bars and level ticks and such as a psychological trick to keep people playing... but really, if you like the core of the game then what do the rewards actually matter? I play the game because I like the fundamentals of the space combat model. The equipment meta-game on top of that is just icing.
Doesn't matter to 99.9% of MMORPG players.

The MMORPG format is inherently about progress. Your goal is to climb to the top and compete and cooperate at the highest level of play.

If you, during play, encounter barriers that make the goal look impossible, that is a dealbreaker to many. More relevant to STO's case though, if you encounter vague limitations that make your plans to reach said milestone fuzzy and indistinct, mustering the willpower to go on regardless of content quality is going to be more difficult as time goes on, and you create a player leak.

If they wanted to make a game that is purely about enjoyment, they would not have chosen the MMORPG format.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,698
# 13
01-13-2013, 08:18 AM
You can play this game and CHOOSE not to grind.

There are all kinds of things you can do in game that do not cost dilithium and do not require dilithium, fleet or whatever gear to be successful at.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
"I would rather take a chance on getting a change made to the game through positive engagement than know for sure that I got a change made by complaining" -drogyn1701, May 14, 2014.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 290
# 14
01-13-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
You can play this game and CHOOSE not to grind.

There are all kinds of things you can do in game that do not cost dilithium and do not require dilithium, fleet or whatever gear to be successful at.
I hear what you're saying but I'm not sure I totally agree with you, at least not in the long run.

IMHO I see the weapons/ships/consoles/doffs/rep passives/etc. all as a way to slightly improve a player's performance in space (and some ground) combat. If you don't participate in this power creep grind (which requires a ridiculous amount of dilith) you will eventually get to the point where you are not on par with the many other players who have. Thus your sense of enjoyment will diminish since you will probably feel inconsequential compared to the performance of those others.

Don't know when this divergence of capability will manifest itself in an obvious manner, but make no mistake about it, Cryptic/PW is/are pushing ppl to grind and eventually buy dilith. It is, after all, a business and this seems to be their current business model.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,828
# 15
01-13-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonulinu2 View Post
I hear what you're saying but I'm not sure I totally agree with you, at least not in the long run.

IMHO I see the weapons/ships/consoles/doffs/rep passives/etc. all as a way to slightly improve a player's performance in space (and some ground) combat. If you don't participate in this power creep grind (which requires a ridiculous amount of dilith) you will eventually get to the point where you are not on par with the many other players who have. Thus your sense of enjoyment will diminish since you will probably feel inconsequential compared to the performance of those others.

Don't know when this divergence of capability will manifest itself in an obvious manner, but make no mistake about it, Cryptic/PW is/are pushing ppl to grind and eventually buy dilith. It is, after all, a business and this seems to be their current business model.
If you don't do PvP, this shouldn't be a factor in your play-style.
...... DaveyNY ...STO Forum Member since February - 2009
..............Star Trek Fan since Thursday Sept. 8th, 1966
There are No Longer any STO Veterans... We're Just People who have Played the Game for the last 4 years.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 16
01-13-2013, 10:08 AM
Now... First of all:

I think the DOff upgrade costs they added back in November are too high and that there should be a free option that takes time. (Ie. the slow option takes 48 hours or you can pay for convenience.)

Second, though:

Without grind, people run out of things to play. The whole point of grind is to provide a value to playing and a (light) penalty for not playing. And for every person who quits over it, it probably keeps ten people from quitting.

It's like a tourniquet.

They can't keep up with content demands. With five times the budget, they can't keep up with content demands.

Yes, that tourniquet sure feels tight on the arm and sometimes you may lose feeling in your fingers but it's on there to constrict bloodflow and keep you from losing the whole arm.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 17
01-13-2013, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercurythefirst View Post
Doesn't matter to 99.9% of MMORPG players.

The MMORPG format is inherently about progress. Your goal is to climb to the top and compete and cooperate at the highest level of play.
Mmm, I think that could be said about any game

*MY* goal is to compete against the game itself and ... have fun. I do this every time I log on. So it's not at the highest level nor does it need to be, it happened on day one and happens every day.

So am I a part of the 0.1% ?
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,698
# 18
01-13-2013, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonulinu2 View Post
I hear what you're saying but I'm not sure I totally agree with you, at least not in the long run.

IMHO I see the weapons/ships/consoles/doffs/rep passives/etc. all as a way to slightly improve a player's performance in space (and some ground) combat. If you don't participate in this power creep grind (which requires a ridiculous amount of dilith) you will eventually get to the point where you are not on par with the many other players who have. Thus your sense of enjoyment will diminish since you will probably feel inconsequential compared to the performance of those others.

Don't know when this divergence of capability will manifest itself in an obvious manner, but make no mistake about it, Cryptic/PW is/are pushing ppl to grind and eventually buy dilith. It is, after all, a business and this seems to be their current business model.
That all depends on if you care about comparing yourself to others. I do not.

I don't care about having the best gear and I don't care about min-maxing. I just play. Obviously not everyone feels that way but my main point is no one is FORCED to grind. You make that choice and if it's not fun for you, don't do it. There's lots of this game available without grinding.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
"I would rather take a chance on getting a change made to the game through positive engagement than know for sure that I got a change made by complaining" -drogyn1701, May 14, 2014.

Last edited by drogyn1701; 01-13-2013 at 10:22 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,069
# 19
01-13-2013, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonulinu2 View Post
I hear what you're saying but I'm not sure I totally agree with you, at least not in the long run.

IMHO I see the weapons/ships/consoles/doffs/rep passives/etc. all as a way to slightly improve a player's performance in space (and some ground) combat. If you don't participate in this power creep grind (which requires a ridiculous amount of dilith) you will eventually get to the point where you are not on par with the many other players who have. Thus your sense of enjoyment will diminish since you will probably feel inconsequential compared to the performance of those others.

Don't know when this divergence of capability will manifest itself in an obvious manner, but make no mistake about it, Cryptic/PW is/are pushing ppl to grind and eventually buy dilith. It is, after all, a business and this seems to be their current business model.
you can still do STFs without it.... you don't NEED it it's helpful, but not NEEDED.
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 181
# 20
01-13-2013, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
You don't NEED Dilithium to opgrade your DOffs. Sell particle traces and stacks of Data Samples like I said. Any gear you loot and do not have a use for, take a minute to sell it too. Price it to move. I don't mean price it so low that it is next to worthless, but come down below what the market currently has it going for. Remember, there are thousands of others playing this game. One person's trash is another person's treasure.

It just takes some patience. Particle Traces are quick EC. I've never put a set up that didn't sell withing a few minutes....

Doing the Dilithium-based DOff upgrade is for convenience. You can pretty much find whatever DOff you need rather than hoping someone drops one on the exchange. Convenience costs. They want you to buy Zen and convert it to Dilithium. Some do, even with the Zen-Dilithium exchange rates where they are... Why? Because doing so allows them to go beyond the daily refinement cap.

But like I said, you can find the DOffs you need on the exchange. So if you want to hold onto your Dil, earn EC off sales and you'll get it.

That's not the way the game was designed. They started charging for the upgrades after a couple of years of it being free!! I am used to doing a 5-1 upgrade from under performing duty officers to better performing ones. All the way to purple. I do buy some cadres and individual ones as well. I am talking about being able to upgrade all the way to a purple officer. And having to buy better officers like you say does not give me a chance at a random set of good characteristics. I mean really If I had to buy a purple doff with the best traits it would cost a fortune. The old way without the dilithium is much better. You can buy and sell with EC on the market all you want. To me its a colossal waste of time.

Also another main point us why do they have to charge so much? It does cost a lot of dilithium considering the fact that it used to be free!!!!!


ANd why do we have to pay dilithium for so many things that used to be free!!

This is supposed to be star trek. Not Ferengi Trek for profits. I mean really its not even close to the perfect society. Where there is no currency. There has to be a stopping point to charging for everything. What I am saying is not really that hard to understand!!
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