Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,691
# 21
01-13-2013, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zztoppers View Post
Most of what you say makes sense. But my main point is. Why does it have to cost Dilithium for everything we do in the game. DOFF upgrades. I mean really. That's just plain petty!!
it doesnt.

you can get doffs for fleet credits at the starbase. you can still get the 2/3 man packs from the academy guy for nothing. you can still get it off the exchange which is even easier now that better loot is dropping more frequently and can be cashed in.

they gave away free ships and costumes at the winter event and you can guarantee there will be some free stuff at the anniversary event.

yes some of the packs have a dilithium cost attached, but the ease of earning dilithium has also gone up. coupled with the fact that starbases have forced the price of zen down. 1 zen costs about 88 dilithium at the moment. for a free to play game that requires people to buy zen, its stupidly easy to earn it.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 181
# 22
01-13-2013, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
it doesnt.

you can get doffs for fleet credits at the starbase. you can still get the 2/3 man packs from the academy guy for nothing. you can still get it off the exchange which is even easier now that better loot is dropping more frequently and can be cashed in.

they gave away free ships and costumes at the winter event and you can guarantee there will be some free stuff at the anniversary event.

yes some of the packs have a dilithium cost attached, but the ease of earning dilithium has also gone up. coupled with the fact that starbases have forced the price of zen down. 1 zen costs about 88 dilithium at the moment. for a free to play game that requires people to buy zen, its stupidly easy to earn it.
Are we playing the same game???

Have you ever been to starfleet academy? Have you ever talked to the personel officer? Did you ever trade five under performing officers for a better quality officer?

And why should I have to get doffs off the exchange when it used to be free to upgrade them?

As I said before you can buy and sell all the doffs you want on the exchange. For me this a waste of time. The old way is better!!

Next you will be saying it should cost dilithium to play foundry missions or STFs etc. If you want to have to pay for everything in this game fine. I choose to limit the amount of currency for things that are now free. And should stay free!! Soon they will be charging for even more stuff. And even more of my friends will dissapear and I will have even less reason to buy any Zen or even play the game.

A business model is simple. It costs four times as much to gain a new customer as it does to keep a current customer happy!

Last edited by zztoppers; 01-13-2013 at 10:45 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 203
# 23
01-13-2013, 10:39 AM
This is how I see it;

1. There are more systems in place and more gear in the game now that require DIL than ever before in STO.
2. You can farm as much as you want for DIL, and there are also more ways to obtain DIL now than ever before, however you are still limited to refining 8,000 per day.
3. Everything worth having, save for the end game ships, cost DIL. Fleet gear/weapons, Reputation System(Omega, MACO, Borg, Romulan) gear/projects & weapons, Fleet projects, Embassy gear, etc.

Think of it like this; you have a larger demand for DIL, but you also have a larger supply. In theory, this should be ideal....however, in between this supply/demand there is a caveat, a 'funnel' if you will, that will only allow a certain amount of supply to meet that demand in any given period/day. As long as this remains unchecked, the newly enlarged supply will NEVER be able to quell the newly enlarged demand.

Another way; there is a Dam with millions of gallons of water held behind it. There is a town not to far away that is drying up and need copious amounts of water regularly to satiate it's inhabitants. There is more than enough water for these people, however there is a opening in the Dam which only allows 1 gallon per day to be obtained from the huge water source. Obviously, this is not enough for even a small community to live on consistently despite there being more than enough at their disposal, they are limited by things beyond their control.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,100
# 24
01-13-2013, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zztoppers View Post
Are we playing the same game???

Have you ever been to starfleet academy? Have you ever talked to the personel officer? Did you ever trade five under performing officers for a better quality officer?

And why should I have to get doffs off the exchange when it used to be free to upgrade them?

As I said before you can buy and sell all the doffs you want on the exchange. For me this a waste of time. The old way is better!!
Newbie... the OLD way to get blues and purples was to collect refugees for Asylum missions and hope to get lucky when doing general recruitment.

The compactor is a new development that was a crutch abused by players who were lazy. So the cost got adjusted to something meaningful.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,215
# 25
01-13-2013, 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zztoppers View Post
Have you ever been to starfleet academy? Have you ever talked to the personel officer? Did you ever trade five under performing officers for a better quality officer?

And why should I have to get doffs off the exchange when it used to be free to upgrade them?

As I said before you can buy and sell all the doffs you want on the exchange. For me this a waste of time. The old way is better!!
"Better" is relative.

And I've done the DOff exchange at the Academy. That entire process is silly to me, not because of the Dilithium cost ... but because the upgrade is *random*. To me, that makes upgrading worthless.

So buying a DOff from the exchange is actually "better" because I get to choose the DOff I want (granted, if it's offered) AND it won't cost Dilithium, just EC - which is rediculously easy to make in STO.

Cryptic wants you to play the game and that's it. If that means you have to travel from the Academy to the mines, then to a mission or ten and an STF in order for you to get the Dilithium to trade 5 Blue for 1 Purple DOff ... then they have achieved their goal.

If you can't (or won't) accept that new reality, then you have other choices to make: participate in their plan or find an alternative. The alternatives are the Exchange (power of choice), drops (random and luck), trading with another player, or none of the above (which gets you nothing).
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,691
# 26
01-13-2013, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zztoppers View Post
Are we playing the same game???

Have you ever been to starfleet academy? Have you ever talked to the personel officer? Did you ever trade five under performing officers for a better quality officer?

And why should I have to get doffs off the exchange when it used to be free to upgrade them?

As I said before you can buy and sell all the doffs you want on the exchange. For me this a waste of time. The old way is better!!
Yes I have done all of those things. Yes I know they cost dilithium now. I did not say that they did not.

The old way if different. there are advantages to the old way and there are advantages to the new way. you are free to like which ever way you wish however the argument you have been making is that everything costs dilthium when it does not, and you fail to take into consideration that there are new ways to earn doffs, and its easier to get dilithium to compensate for the changes. this is a free game. you can play it for nothing. there is going to be tradeoffs, and as its an MMO these trade offs will change, and evolve over time.

why should you have to get doffs off the exchange now? because they changed it. so you can either complain about the changes or look and see how the changes can now benefit you. there are plenty of ways to get some decent doffs from the starclusters the the exchange to the fleet system. you dont even need them.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 789
# 27
01-13-2013, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zztoppers View Post
Are we playing the same game???

Have you ever been to starfleet academy? Have you ever talked to the personel officer? Did you ever trade five under performing officers for a better quality officer?

And why should I have to get doffs off the exchange when it used to be free to upgrade them?

As I said before you can buy and sell all the doffs you want on the exchange. For me this a waste of time. The old way is better!!
There are a TON of other ways to get DOFFS.
  1. All the colony chains give a purple on crit and a blue always. Also this grants not costs dilith.
  2. Each of the 11 categories of doff mission give 1 blue and 1 purple, some give 2 of each for free.
  3. Doing repeatable colony missions gives you prisoners and refugees, You can do asylum and prisoner exchange missions to get random blue and purple doffs on a 1:1 not 5:1 basis and again this GRANTS not costs dilith.
  4. turn your white duty officers in for fleet credit, downgrade green and blue then donate the whites. Use the fleet marks to buy blue and purple. No dilithium needed.
  5. Many specific missions also grant DOFFs of blue and purple quality like the hamlet play, or the Caitian diaspora. These also GRANT not cost dilith.
  6. Some of the free recruiting missions and cultural exchange missions crit giving you green and blue random doffs. I don't know if you can get a purple from a crit but I have gotten blues.

And that's just a partial list. If you don't want to do the dilithium upgrades, just go back to the older way before they implemented the upgrade and do the asylum missions. I've been using those and I'm quite enjoying it. Plus you can do more than 1/day if you can find them so it's even faster.

Deep space 9 is a good spot to find the prisoner exchange missions, and it has trill, bajoran and bolian asylum missions pretty often.

Quote:
A business model is simple. It costs four times as much to gain a new customer as it does to keep a current customer happy!
Actually, in MMO's the reverse is true. Most of them work by attracting new players and keeping just a small number of old ones who will stay forever nomatter what.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 789
# 28
01-13-2013, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercurythefirst View Post
Doesn't matter to 99.9% of MMORPG players.

The MMORPG format is inherently about progress. Your goal is to climb to the top and compete and cooperate at the highest level of play.

If you, during play, encounter barriers that make the goal look impossible, that is a dealbreaker to many. More relevant to STO's case though, if you encounter vague limitations that make your plans to reach said milestone fuzzy and indistinct, mustering the willpower to go on regardless of content quality is going to be more difficult as time goes on, and you create a player leak.

If they wanted to make a game that is purely about enjoyment, they would not have chosen the MMORPG format.
Yay random numbers pulled out of someone's bunghole!

I choose MMOs because they're social. I know a ton of other people who do as well.

Hang out in Drozana Station or the winter wonderland. Pretty much no one is there to get uber-l337 gear. Or all the people who have their one-man fleets. And that's more than .1% of the population.

Also, your attitude is not about progress it is about speed. All of us are making progress. You just aren't progressing fast enough for your own taste. Either learn to enjoy the ride, or adapt your playstyle, or take a break. The problem is not the game design, the problem is you are in a rush. There are solutions for that which don't require altering game balance.

That said, I do agree the costs for the upgrades are too high. And the general recruitment pack too. My best guess at a more appropriate level is 500 for the pack (half), 150 for the green upgrade (1/3), 1000 for the blue upgrade (just under half), and 2500 for the purple (almost 1/3).

This would mean that the pack is the equivalent of the daily lore mission or daily satellite repair, the blue upgrade is the equivalent of one foundry repeatable or an explore with change, and the purple you need to do a couple things to afford or save up. To me, that makes sense. Obviously not to cryptic. but fortunately I have a dozen other ways to get doffs that I don't need to worry about it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 181
# 29
01-13-2013, 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinruneblade View Post
Yay random numbers pulled out of someone's bunghole!

I choose MMOs because they're social. I know a ton of other people who do as well.

Hang out in Drozana Station or the winter wonderland. Pretty much no one is there to get uber-l337 gear. Or all the people who have their one-man fleets. And that's more than .1% of the population.

Also, your attitude is not about progress it is about speed. All of us are making progress. You just aren't progressing fast enough for your own taste. Either learn to enjoy the ride, or adapt your playstyle, or take a break. The problem is not the game design, the problem is you are in a rush. There are solutions for that which don't require altering game balance.

That said, I do agree the costs for the upgrades are too high. And the general recruitment pack too. My best guess at a more appropriate level is 500 for the pack (half), 150 for the green upgrade (1/3), 1000 for the blue upgrade (just under half), and 2500 for the purple (almost 1/3).

This would mean that the pack is the equivalent of the daily lore mission or daily satellite repair, the blue upgrade is the equivalent of one foundry repeatable or an explore with change, and the purple you need to do a couple things to afford or save up. To me, that makes sense. Obviously not to cryptic. but fortunately I have a dozen other ways to get doffs that I don't need to worry about it.

Makes perfect sense to me!!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 30
01-13-2013, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zztoppers View Post
Things cost to much dilithium. Is this game still worth playing? I was not having a problem with this until a moment ago. I went to Starfleet Academy. I tried to reassign Uncommon duty officers. They wanted 2500 dilithium.

Since when does it cost dilithium to upgrade officers?

All of my friends constantly complaining the dilithium rewards are way to small. And everything costs to much. I am beginning to understand why all my friends have either stopped playing or are almost never online anymore.

Stuff that used to be basic and easy has suddenly become hard.

I understand the Play for Free model. I really do. But this goes beyond the norm.

Cryptic and Perfect world--Do you have to charge for everything?
You have to be really careful and read each and every DOFF Recruitment mission that you come across in game because now even the Recruitment missions that you find in sector space has a cost of 1000 Dilithium

I saw no valid reason for Cryptic to start adding Dilithium costs to DOFF Missions that had been free from the start.
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