Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 92
# 91
01-15-2013, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Making my point for me. Just because you're not Kai, doesn't mean you don't believe.
Just because you believe, doesn't make you Kai.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 92
01-15-2013, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaitu View Post
Kira, by comparison spent 27 years in the Bajoran resistance, and did not become a Vedek, or anything else. An important factor since in order for someone to become Kai they must be chosen from the Vedeks on the Vedek Assembly.
Just because one doesn't start out in the order doesn't mean one can't join the order later. Take the episode where a Cardassian survivor of one of Kira's resistance raids comes back to wipe out the Shakaar resistance cell. Where does it open? With one of those former members leading his brothers in prayer as a monk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaitu View Post
Just because you believe, doesn't make you Kai.
When you've been chosen as an avatar of the Prophets, and served as the Emissary's chosen right hand, it tends to help get you there. 40 years have passed since the end of the Dominion Wars. Please lay out for me why it is impossible for Kira to have "found her calling"?

Last edited by stirling191; 01-15-2013 at 08:29 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 92
# 93
01-15-2013, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Just because one doesn't start out in the order doesn't mean one can't join the order later. Take the episode where a Cardassian survivor of one of Kira's resistance raids comes back to wipe out the Shakaar resistance cell. Where does it open? With one of those former members leading his brothers in prayer as a monk.
Kira was not a monk and showed no interest toward becoming a monk.
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 394
# 94
01-15-2013, 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaitu View Post
Opaka's pre-Kai history is virtually non-existant, but she served as Kai for nearly 50 years.

Bariel started his career as a gardener at the temple and eventually became a Vedek.

Winn has a long career in the faith as well, being beaten by Cardassians during the occupation, and rising to the rank of Vedek.

Kira, by comparison spent 27 years in the Bajoran resistance, and did not become a Vedek, or anything else. An important factor since in order for someone to become Kai they must be chosen from the Vedeks on the Vedek Assembly.
And where does this information come from? If you are going to cite a source, don't forget to provide the source so we can see it for ourselves. We've only used the information available in episodes, and speculation.

As for Kira not being a Vedek, perhaps when they saw how easily the Vedek Assembly was manipulated into voting Winn into power, some changes were made?

Perhaps they made some kind of special exception in Kira's case because she had been the Emissary's right hand?

Because a rule says one thing, it doesn't mean it is immutable.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 95
01-15-2013, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaitu View Post
Kira was not a monk and showed no interest toward becoming a monk.
40 years have passed Klaitu. You really want to tell me that a person of faith, after a lifetime of service as a soldier for her people, can't continue that service as a shepard and guide to her people in the role of a priest?

Kira was there for the fall of Cardassia and Sisko's ascension. Two events that have the capacity to effect a person in any number of profound ways. One of which may very well have planted the seed that led her to the road to becoming Kai.

Last edited by stirling191; 01-15-2013 at 08:34 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 394
# 96
01-15-2013, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
40 years have passed Klaitu. You really want to tell me that a person of faith, after a lifetime of service as a soldier for her people, can't continue that service as a shepard and guide to her people in the role of a priest?
That's a good point actually. I never even considered the time that had elapsed between DS9 ending and STO.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,184
# 97
01-15-2013, 08:34 AM
The Sisko will smite you

The Following signature is not endorsed by the Dukat administration, and Down with Bajor Party


Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 92
# 98
01-15-2013, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bortjinx View Post
And where does this information come from? If you are going to cite a source, don't forget to provide the source so we can see it for ourselves. We've only used the information available in episodes, and speculation.
Opaka became Kai after Meressa was killed. Meressa was killed because the Bajoran faith became outlawed during the Occupation.

You're right in that I just assumed it was near the first of the occupation, but theoretically speaking it could have been any time before the Kendra Valley Massacre.

As for source: the TV show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bortjinx View Post
As for Kira not being a Vedek, perhaps when they saw how easily the Vedek Assembly was manipulated into voting Winn into power, some changes were made?
It would be difficult to remove politics from a political system.

Winn was elected because Bariel withdrew to protect Opaka's memory. There wasn't anything technically wrong with the process, except Winn blackmailing bariel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bortjinx View Post
Perhaps they made some kind of special exception in Kira's case because she had been the Emissary's right hand?
She's never referred to as the Emissary's right hand at any point during the series.. at least, not that I can recall.

I mean, since it's non-canon, we can just make up any story we want about Kira.. maybe she's Kai because she has the remnants of that prophet inside her from when she fought Jake Sisko. Maybe she was immaculately concieved by the prophets a la Anakin Skywalker..

Everyone's got their own opinion, but I personally think it's the wildest stretch of credibility for Kira to do a complete 180 and become a politician after having been no-nonsense freedim fighter for her entire life.. not to mention the fact that she'd have to advance to Vedek, which in itself is a high ranking position.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 825
# 99
01-15-2013, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaitu View Post
Kira was not a monk and showed no interest toward becoming a monk.
Well, in all fairness, STO takes place nearly 40 years after Deep Space Nine... A lot can happen to a person in that time. For all we know, after Starfleet appointed the next station commander, Kira may have decided to retire from the Bajoran Militia and devote the remainder of her life to cultivating her spiritual side.

If I recall, Sisko returned at some point prior to 2409, and if I recall correctly, retired to his home on Bajor. While no longer directly involved with the affairs of the Bajoran people as Emissary, at least not to the degree he was before, he probably received a lot of correspondence from important people seeking advice. All it would have taken, after learning of Kira's devotion to spiritual persuits, was for him to just suggest that he would support her if she were to be in the running. It wouldn't surprise me if Kira would have denied being the right person, but then with such high praise from the emmissary and her hatred of how the position of Kai had been used in the past for political amneuvering, She may have determined that she could do the job if the Prophets would guide her.

This is all hypothetical blabbering. But like I said, a lot could have happened in Kira's life after we saw her last in the series finale of DS9. According to STO, she IS the Kai. It would be nice if someone at Cryptic would add some historical records in the Bajor ground zone that detail Kira's spiritual journey from former soldier to Kai.

And incidentally, She would be showing some age by now. Some things do not necessarily require mission content to present. It could just be worked into background details available to the player if they want to explore them.
I personally want a Star Trek game that is actually Star Trek. On a qualitative level that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But on a quantitative level, if the developers were to watch star trek and make the game like what they see, then at least it will be a shot in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 100
01-15-2013, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bortjinx View Post
You know the Breen/Deferi series? Where you get to meet the Preserver at the end? And the Preservers were responsible for seeding the galaxy with life (which is why most of the aliens in Trek resemble humans)?

Well, in another of his time travel adventures, Kirk actually spawned with a Preserver, and his genetic line went out and conquered the galaxy.

So, you see, we are all descendents of Kirk.

Hmmm, for typing random crap, I have an idea for a new foundry mission...
oh please don't. While I don't deny that some of us might have more "Kirk" in us then we might want to admit, I would hate to find out that half the galaxy is related to him do to his 5 year mission.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Loading screens list him as ambassador to Vulcan. It's not just an idea, per STO it happened. Just like Data coming back from the dead, and Kira becoming Kai.
I believe the loading screens also mention that after some time (I don't remember specifics) he retired to his Family's vineyard, so I am assuming, barring any other evidence, that is where he is now.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:22 PM.