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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 177
# 11
01-17-2013, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
Well, that died quickly. Thank you kimmym and stirling191 for actually responding rationally to the idea proposed, you were the only ones. Ah well, I just really wanted to be able to stack my TR with Polaron procs so its effects would actually be noticeable.
Patiuence young one, a new lockbox is coming, and with it, probably plasmonic leach for ferderation toons. That or aceton assimilator, both of which drain power. Use this console with a good drain setup, and you should put out some decent damage yourself.

Too those of you who think science vessels are inferior, go actually learn how too fly one, then tell me they are.

Finally, a science vessel isn't about doing one thing too aggrivate someone, it's about doing many thingsd to aggrivate many someones. The amount of debuff and superweapons this ship can have is unbelieveable, and the three things the consoles give you is perfect foir science ships: moar damage ( we can always use that), constant repels, and healing, plus the perfect shield that makes the intrepid-r pointless with all three consoles.

It is simply the ship of many things. I even put mask energy signature 3 on mine for no reason other than it's a cloaking hyper-advanced vessel that deals considerable damage.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 12
01-17-2013, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanerandomnes View Post
Too those of you who think science vessels are inferior, go actually learn how too fly one, then tell me they are.
its not the ships that are inferior, its the powers that are too weak compared to others
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 13
01-17-2013, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
its not the ships that are inferior, its the powers that are too weak compared to others
And they keep getting nerfed farther. Since I joined the game at f2p I've seen 2 major announced nerfs to my own complement of preferred powers: the reduction in stun time on PSW by about 80%, and the recent changes to CPB which have left it at about 2/3 of its previous value. Then there are the stealth nerfs, like the application of Inertia Rating to the stun effects of PSW, and the nerfs claimed to be buffs, like the change of the -repel of GW to a pulse system, and of course the additional Power Insulators the Borg just got. And then there's the question of whether ST is going to get its ability to clear VM back, or whether that's been totally transferred to ET, which would be a remarkable nerf to ST.

What have we gotten on the upside? Well, VM was buffed some, but it still isn't that helpful in PvE. And then we got a bunch of new, rather powerful ships: the Fleet Recon, the Fleet Nova, the Temp Sci, and of course the Vesta. Most of those get their added power from being more like escorts: the Recon gets a 4th tac console, the Nova has an LtC tac instead of sci, and the Vesta gets DHCs, and can transfer its LtC (which I refuse to do). Even the Temp Sci gets a mobility buff to be more like an escort and loses some sci capability, but much of its advantage comes from the Temporal Backstep ability which actually does boost its sci abilities somewhat. The Elite Deflectors with their 10% CD reduction may help some more, but not all that much. That's why I wanted the polarons, they really mesh well with sci abilities and help to make them functional. I'd trade the universal LtC for polaron in place of the phaser in a heartbeat, even with the loss of tac console boosts to the QFFC. But then I'm a sci guy through and through.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 549
# 14
01-17-2013, 01:31 PM
Personally, I'm okay with phasers cannons.

What I would've liked to see, though, are Aux Phaser Beam arrays. I actually don't have much use for the cannons - I think it makes a science vessel too frontloaded. I also irks me to lose out of subsystem targeting with those in front.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 15
01-18-2013, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
There is no way you are going to match an escorts DPS with Aux cannons. First off, you have less weapons slots. Second you lose your turrets, or at least lose running them at full power. Third they are statistically inferior to other cannons you could load instead. Forth you lose out on the commander tac slot.
This is incorrect (sort-of) - assuming you're comparing a 3 x DHC, 3 x Turret 4 x Tac slot Escort setup with a 3 x Aux DHC, 3 x Phaser Turrets Vesta, it's possible to get superior unbuffed DPS from the Vesta.

To do this you'd need to run the Tac Vesta and build your ship/Captain around boosting Aux and Weapons power levels - I tried this a while back as a little experiment and found it was possible to get to:

Weapons: 95
Shields: 55
Engines: 45
Aux: 125

This relies on you maxing the skills that add to your Aux and Weapons power levels as well as Warp Core Potential and Efficiency. You'd also have to add Mk XII Plasma Manifolds, the Borg Console (+5 Weapons), Romulan Console (+1.8 W/S/E/A), Borg Deflector (+5 Aux), Jem'hadar Engines (+2.5 Weapons, +?.? Weapons depending on power levels).

The neat thing is, it raises your Weapons power to a higher level for the turrets than it would be after an Escort had drained its Weapons Power with DHCs so in theory your Aux DHCs and Turrets are putting out more DPS than a full Weapons build. Having Warp Core/Efficient traits and Boffs could push this a little further (The Excelsior's Transwarp Computer would too).

It's probably not practical for most players but it makes an interesting exercise in how far you can push a 125 Aux ship to do DPS - of course, a Tac is still going to wipe the floor with you

If Feds do get the Plasmonic Leech then the whole proposition gets a lot more interesting...
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Last edited by weylandjuarez; 01-18-2013 at 04:37 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 16
01-18-2013, 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
This is incorrect (sort-of) - assuming you're comparing a 3 x DHC, 3 x Turret 4 x Tac slot Escort setup with a 3 x Aux DHC, 3 x Phaser Turrets Vesta, it's possible to get superior unbuffed DPS from the Vesta.
Yeah, but once you factor in the Escort's more powerful weapon buffs and extra weapon slot (1 quantum torp with a TS1 on a single target is worth ~.7k DPS) the Vesta does wind up being inferior, even with the Sensor Analysis, which isn't going to add even 10%.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 17
01-18-2013, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
Yeah, but once you factor in the Escort's more powerful weapon buffs and extra weapon slot (1 quantum torp with a TS1 on a single target is worth ~.7k DPS) the Vesta does wind up being inferior, even with the Sensor Analysis, which isn't going to add even 10%.
True - that kind of extreme min/maxxing is only ever going to be a niche thing for Sci's that really want to get the most DPS out of a pure Sci ship (which can be fun in itself) - if you just want maximum DPS (whatever class you play) you're better off with a Fleet Defiant or the Jem'hadar.

It does invite the possibility of a Tac flying a Vesta though with 125 Aux and skill points invested in Flow Caps/Graviton/Particle/Subspace Decompiler - combine all those highly specced Sci skills with high Aux, 3 x Aux DHCs, decent Weapons power and Attack Pattern Alpha/Go Down Fighting/Tactical Fleet and you've got something pretty interesting.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 18
01-18-2013, 06:51 PM
No.The Oddessy didn't come with anything special like aux to cannons so why should thie Vesta.The Oddy is higher class ship to.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 92
# 19
01-20-2013, 04:59 AM
Wy should you have various energy types? Starfleet mainly use phasers.

Anyway, the vesta is a science class, it's not suppose to do all it's damage through energy weapons. To give it Aux-turrets/aux-beam arrays/aux-tea makers would just be stupid.

If you want various cannons and turrets, equip them. If you want them to deal huge damage, roll and escort.

If you want to be awesome, get a klingon character!
I'm the guy that uses unconventional builds, and don't fall to the normal. I also don't believe in "No-BS" crap, it's in the game, it's ready to be used. Think Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 246
# 20
01-20-2013, 06:17 AM
personally I believe any leech sci vessle can take on any ship and in 1v1 and win, i mean my god these things just don't stop, not only are you fighting them you are fighting yourself, it's like you hit them once and then yourself and then they hit you. So I don't get the reason why people think they should be stronger, sci ships are like monks or priest or healers just fighting them is exhausting and will end in a draw or your defeat.
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