Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 19
# 1 Am I the only one...
01-16-2013, 07:06 AM
... who's afraid of the, as it seems with the upcoming changes, working traits of the romulan embassy BOs?
Technically you can gain _base_ crit rates of roughly about 25% with some consoles and the accuracy trait. Will they turn PvP into a "who crits first" fest and make ("elite")PvE even more laughable?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,623
# 2
01-16-2013, 07:39 AM
A few folks mentioned it in the Tribble maintenance thread. It got mentioned in OPvP.

I think the guy championing it in that Tribble thread is why it will likely get changed... cause of the repercussions it will have in PvE (though that wasn't his intent, it's pointing out why many things have gotten changed - NWS)...


"Wheeeee, this is kind of fun. Oopsie...my bad."
Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
Endless, Hazari Destroyer
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,953
# 3
01-16-2013, 07:58 AM
so once i recruit as many as i can use, im sure i will have about 20% crit chance wile APA is on, before even factoring the crit mods on the weapons. thats pretty hilarious.

at this point, im pretty sure the average crit chance has doubled since season 7
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 4
01-16-2013, 08:11 AM
I always enjoyed building a character around a specific trait. It was a challenge to get the most out of something. I don't have anything against CritH (in fact I love it) but its so easy and you don't even have to give up anything for it. 1% here and 2.5% there aren't small boosts. All you have to do is pay...

Large innate/passive boosts do more harm than good, in my opinion.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 5
01-16-2013, 08:14 AM
Crits will be the new norm. We're gonna need two things:

1. Super crits. Because crit chance is going to be 100%, anything over that is converted into super crit.

2. Crit defense. Imagine tacking "immunity to critical hits" onto PH or APO. Most likely adding a T3 embassy doff that gives it.

Ain't power creep hysterical?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,501
# 6
01-16-2013, 08:16 AM
So I've seen this answered both ways. So being the eternal optimist I'll ask again.

Does STO use one roll to determine the outcome when one entity fires on another entity?

In short, when I pew pew at you, do I get ONE roll per shot, and that roll will be miss, crit, normal?

Or whatever choices there are. For example out of 100:

0-50 Hit
50-59 Crit
60-99 Miss

Or is it as follows:

0-75 Hit
76-99 Miss

And then we make a second roll to determine severity:

0-19 Crit
20-99 Normal

Just asking. Well to be frank why I'm asking should be glaringly obvious but if it isn't there's not much to do about that.

Cheers!
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,501
# 7
01-16-2013, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
so once i recruit as many as i can use, im sure i will have about 20% crit chance wile APA is on, before even factoring the crit mods on the weapons. thats pretty hilarious.

at this point, im pretty sure the average crit chance has doubled since season 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
Crits will be the new norm. We're gonna need two things:

1. Super crits. Because crit chance is going to be 100%, anything over that is converted into super crit.

2. Crit defense. Imagine tacking "immunity to critical hits" onto PH or APO. Most likely adding a T3 embassy doff that gives it.

Ain't power creep hysterical?
If STO uses a 2 roll system, one to determine if a hit took place, and then one to determine severity, APO already has built in crit resistance. Misses can't crit. So if your crit chance was say....50%. Well it would only be 50% of the times that you actually hit something. Well if you only hit 50% of the time only 25% of your shots fired actually become crits.

If it is a one roll system increasing your crit chance may just decrease the chance to get any other result, in a certain order. Depends on what way the table is set up. If increasing crit chance pushed normal hits off the table first, you would hit at the same rate, but crit more often as hits are being converted to crits. If it pushed misses off the table first you would be converting those misses into crits. So you would hit more often, and those extra hits would be crits.


And all in all, this is why avoidance stats are wonky, and prone to be hard to balance. Especially when the way it is distributed is a tad uneven.
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Last edited by thissler; 01-16-2013 at 08:33 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,953
# 8
01-16-2013, 08:34 AM
i wondered that myself, i assume its role for hit, then role for crit, then role for proc. like all separate.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,501
# 9
01-16-2013, 08:41 AM
You can see where that's sorta important to know as it has a huge effect on things of this nature.

I would bet yes, it is a roll to to hit or miss. Then it would be rolls to determine all the other things that a hit could do. Roll for crit? Check. Roll for all incoming procs? Check, check, check. Roll for all outgoing procs? Check, check. Data generated, start crunching the numbers and applying the output.

Maybe that makes it easier to see how HUGE defense is vs resistance. You make your defense roll you NEVER even have to go through all the other stuff. It just doesn't happen. If you Lose your defense roll, or even worse, Lose your defense, you can just skip to the critical damage bit. That's where you'll be.
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Last edited by thissler; 01-16-2013 at 07:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 10 Mr. Owl...
01-16-2013, 11:04 AM
And do we even have the same roll system for different things? Like energy weapons, projectile weapons, mines, doffs, etc? How about to-hit and crit chances when abilities are up? FAW and dispersal patterns suggest it's all pretty convoluted.

Some things we see crit in clumps with observable behaviors. I know a lot of this is anecdotal but I've seen the romulan torp crit on all 3 from a single volley. Looks a lot like the crit was determined at the same time for all 3, does that mean the hit was as well? IDK. Do special weapons like the rom torp get their own special rolls? The world may never know...
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