Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 792
# 101
01-25-2013, 04:17 AM
[quote=jcp26;7618771]
Quote:
Originally Posted by grylak View Post
Well, you know, that was made a bit before the series Enterprise started. And I think I did read somewhere there is a special edition that may have put the NX in there (not sure on that).

The NX-01 is considered Cannon in STO. She is included in the list of ships named Enterprise in the Starbase lobby.

I'm agreeing with you. The NX is canon. It was mentioned in These are the Voyages, which is set during the episode Pegasus, which means the NX did exist in the original timeline.





Of course the Directors edition wouldn't. I can't remember which version it was, or even if it did actually happen, it was just a rumour I heard. But saying the NX was not canon because it was not in a scene filmed 30 years before the show was created is rediculous.
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A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 684
# 102
01-25-2013, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrincy View Post
I suppose it all comes down to which meaning of flagship you go by, star trek uses a strange ( to me ) way of identifying its flagships , seeing as in Naval terms any ship commanded by an admiral becomes a flagship.
Not commanded by a flag officer, the only thing that makes a flagship a flagship in Naval terminology is that there is a flag officer is aboard (preferably they're acting in some official status, but all it takes for a ship to become a flagship is for a flag officer to step on the deck). They don't command the ship, the Captain does.

Also, you'll note that in TMP, when "Admiral" Kirk takes command of the Enterprise from "Captain" Decker (about 20 minutes into the movie, right before Rand turns CDR Son'ek into a ball of mangled Silly Putty in the transporter*), he tells Decker he is being "temporarily" reduced in rank back down to Commander. For the rest of the movie, we see Decker wearing Commander stripes.

We also see for the rest of the movie that Kirk is wearing Captain stripes instead of his Admiral rank. He stepped down from being a flag officer to take command of Enterprise.

In ST:II, we see that Kirk is an Admiral again, but in this movie Captain Spock is the CO of Enterprise, not Kirk. Kirk is only aboard to observe the cadet/midshipman cruise. Spock "defers" to Kirk, but does not technically take command, until well... Spock dies (spoiler alert?), and even then, it's only to take Enterprise back to spacedock.

In ST:III, Kirk becomes a fugitive and is not acting as a member of starfleet. Not only does he steal a cruiser, he gets it destroyed. He has for all intents and purposes abandoned his post.

In ST:IV, Kirk is still a fugitive until he returns from the '80's with a couple whales and a stolen BoP to save Earth from a giant space tetherball. For this action, starfleet decides to spare Kirk from the capital punishment for stealing and destroying one of their cruisers and instead reinstate his status as a starfleet officer with a permanent reduction in rank to Captain.

Kirk was never in official command of Enterprise as an Admiral.


*...and so ends ex-Yeoman Rand's short-lived career change as a Transporter Technician.

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Last edited by direphoenix; 01-25-2013 at 06:00 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 172
# 103
01-25-2013, 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by age03 View Post
You are not a Trek fan or you would know that anything done when Gene was alive and creator/producer is canon.That ship is not canon and nither is that show.

This is why JJs Star Trek is not canon

I said what I said about the earning and I know I ma right if you debated with me again without me looking at my last post.You sure don't know much about the franchise or what went on.There are Starfleet Battle fans who aren't hard core fans of the shows that know more than you.

I can't prove the evidence because it is in print not on the net.Not eveything is on the net you know.

btw to all the Enterprise is not the flagship just one of the Stars as Gene didn't want it that way.it is like the General Lee of the Dukes of Hazard.
Are you saying that Generations, Insurrection, Nemesis, DS9 and Voyager were not cannon?! Dude, are you high? The continuity runs from TOS all the way to Voyager. And Gene was already dead when the D rescued Scotty. Are you saying that was not cannon either? And Spocks reunification quest? Dude, you just erased over half of the Treck universe and history. Again, are you high?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 172
# 104
01-25-2013, 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by direphoenix View Post

In ST:IV, Kirk is still a fugitive until he returns from the '80's with a couple whales and a stolen BoP to save Earth from a giant space tetherball. For this action, starfleet decides to spare Kirk from the capital punishment for stealing and destroying one of their cruisers and instead reinstate his status as a starfleet officer with a permanent reduction in rank to Captain.

Kirk was never in official command of Enterprise as an Admiral.
I don't recall stealing a Starship to be a death penalty worthy offense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 172
# 105
01-25-2013, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by age03 View Post
You are not a Trek fan or you would know that anything done when Gene was alive and creator/producer is canon.That ship is not canon and nither is that show.

This is why JJs Star Trek is not canon

I said what I said about the earning and I know I ma right if you debated with me again without me looking at my last post.You sure don't know much about the franchise or what went on.There are Starfleet Battle fans who aren't hard core fans of the shows that know more than you.

I can't prove the evidence because it is in print not on the net.Not eveything is on the net you know.

btw to all the Enterprise is not the flagship just one of the Stars as Gene didn't want it that way.it is like the General Lee of the Dukes of Hazard.
I just realized something. By your definition, this whole argument is moot. The B, E, and F were not created until after his death. Therefore, by your definition, none of these ships would be cannon. Which is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in this forum.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 644
# 106
01-25-2013, 06:58 AM
Guys its spelled 'canon' not 'cannon'.

Anyways, age03 wrote himself into a hole there.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 684
# 107
01-25-2013, 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp26 View Post
I don't recall stealing a Starship to be a death penalty worthy offense.
Naval ships are considered sovereign territory of the government they belong to. Kirk stole a piece of Federation territory and was responsible for its destruction. Not only did he abandon his post, his actions could have been considered an act of treason against the UFP. It's not like he's a kid sneaking his car out after daddy grounded him and took away his keys.

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Last edited by direphoenix; 01-25-2013 at 07:09 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 644
# 108
01-25-2013, 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by direphoenix View Post
Naval ships are considered sovereign territory of the government they belong to. Kirk stole a piece of Federation territory and was responsible for its destruction. Not only did he abandon his post, his actions could have been considered an act of treason against the UFP. It's not like he's a kid sneaking his car out after daddy grounded him and took away his keys.

I think you're missing the part where AFAWK the only Death Penalty in the Federation is going to the Talos system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 172
# 109
01-25-2013, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskin67 View Post
I think you're missing the part where AFAWK the only Death Penalty in the Federation is going to the Talos system.
Besides, how often has the Federation actually executed anyone? The Marquis committed armed rebellion against the Federation, but captured Marquis were not executed. The Admiral that tried to overthrow the government was guilty of high treason, but he was not executed either. And the Female changeling was guilty of war crimes and genocide against various races. By 2409 she was still sitting in her cell. The Federation does not kill it's prisoners. That sort of dishonorable crap is left to the Romulans, Dominion, and Klingons.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 839
# 110
01-25-2013, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by direphoenix View Post
Not commanded by a flag officer, the only thing that makes a flagship a flagship in Naval terminology is that there is a flag officer is aboard (preferably they're acting in some official status, but all it takes for a ship to become a flagship is for a flag officer to step on the deck). They don't command the ship, the Captain does.

Also, you'll note that in TMP, when "Admiral" Kirk takes command of the Enterprise from "Captain" Decker (about 20 minutes into the movie, right before Rand turns CDR Son'ek into a ball of mangled Silly Putty in the transporter*), he tells Decker he is being "temporarily" reduced in rank back down to Commander. For the rest of the movie, we see Decker wearing Commander stripes.

We also see for the rest of the movie that Kirk is wearing Captain stripes instead of his Admiral rank. He stepped down from being a flag officer to take command of Enterprise.

In ST:II, we see that Kirk is an Admiral again, but in this movie Captain Spock is the CO of Enterprise, not Kirk. Kirk is only aboard to observe the cadet/midshipman cruise. Spock "defers" to Kirk, but does not technically take command, until well... Spock dies (spoiler alert?), and even then, it's only to take Enterprise back to spacedock.

In ST:III, Kirk becomes a fugitive and is not acting as a member of starfleet. Not only does he steal a cruiser, he gets it destroyed. He has for all intents and purposes abandoned his post.

In ST:IV, Kirk is still a fugitive until he returns from the '80's with a couple whales and a stolen BoP to save Earth from a giant space tetherball. For this action, starfleet decides to spare Kirk from the capital punishment for stealing and destroying one of their cruisers and instead reinstate his status as a starfleet officer with a permanent reduction in rank to Captain.

Kirk was never in official command of Enterprise as an Admiral.


*...and so ends ex-Yeoman Rand's short-lived career change as a Transporter Technician.
Yet, he was still referred to as Admiral. I think Kirk took the I am captain of the ship, the role too seriously to the point he temporarily degraded himself to Captain, rank.
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