Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,547
I think by now everyone has had the displeasure of warping into yet another failed Tholian alert.

Contrary to the red alerts in close to starting points, the Romulan sector is supposed to be admiral level playground.

So why the frequent failures for the Tholian Red Alerts.

Is it that the Tholians are way overpowered with their disabling abilities or is there simply a surge of incompetence on the Admiral's level.

What do you folks think?

Edit: Before anyone mentions this, i know one doesn't exclude the other.

Last edited by questerius; 01-17-2013 at 01:29 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
# 2
01-17-2013, 01:31 PM
Possibly newer characters that didn't get a bit of an edge in space equipment before the reputation system being implemented. So more expensive/time consuming to get mk xi/xii gear.

Perhaps newer players that didn't get as much combat experience as they doff'ed their way up.

Not really sure, only managed to get into one tholian red alert so far and that went alright with only a handful of seconds to spare.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 3
01-17-2013, 01:57 PM
I've managed to complete it twice, but most of the times you've random guys in rainbow ships taken down by two heavy torps warping in. I'd vote for incompetence.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,547
# 4
01-17-2013, 02:23 PM
When it was first released i remember spawning on the map and immediately getting trapped in a tholian web.

Back then the spawn points of the capital ships was moved so that doesn't happen, but it does show just how powerful the Tholian web is.

I'm not sure if the Tholian ships have resistances to certain commonly used damage types, but if they have that it could partially explain things.

One thing that is for sure is that the majority of people use STF gear which does not resist the Tholian favoured damage type: Tetryon.

At this time the cause of the frequent failures could be either one. The biggest annoyance is that while Borg invasions occur in several areas, the Tholian Red Alert only occurs in Romulan Space.

Drop one in the neutral zone (no Borg invasions there anyway) and people would have a chance to try it instead of getting frustrated by constantly entering failed Tholian Alerts.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 560
# 5
01-17-2013, 02:32 PM
Only ever got to try this once (and for whatever reason failed the mission) as usually the minute I warp in the map is void of any tholians and then I am suddenly warped out back to sector space by the game.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 6
01-17-2013, 03:48 PM
I'd love to be able to answer your question OP, but despite about 20-30 attempts I've never managed to get into a Tholian Red alert that wasn't already finished/failed before I got there.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 333
# 7
01-17-2013, 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
I've managed to complete it twice, but most of the times you've random guys in rainbow ships taken down by two heavy torps warping in. I'd vote for incompetence.
The unfortunate truth, this alert and the borg alerts only take 2-3 good players but the general player base lacks the ability to handle such incoming fire, I can't tell you how often I see people ignoring basic things like tac team and energy uniformity
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 289
# 8
01-17-2013, 04:18 PM
The only time I have been in one that failed was when there were only 3 players in the area. If you can get at least 5 its east to beat.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,547
# 9
01-17-2013, 05:09 PM
I've beat the TRA 5 or 6 times and failed it about the same. The time i failed it was usually with the last boss or support group when time ran out.

In general when people coop and take on support groups in pairs or trio it's almost a milkrun, but when you start and see people bolting in 4 different directions it's almost guaranteed a fail.

Difficulty level i would put it between ISE and Cure Elite.

So in hindsight it's probably player incompetence which causes the high number of failures.

It would be less annoying if the Tholian Red Alerts were available in multiple locations.

Put one outside the vault and one near Nukara prime and people get at least shot to finish it.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,590
# 10
01-17-2013, 08:56 PM
From what I've seen, it's usually general incompetence. I've completed about two or 3 dozen in total over all my toons, and it's usually pretty obvious from the get-go if we're going to win or not.

So far the teams that have done the best are teams composed of two cruisers/battlecruisers and 3 escorts. The two cruisers/battlecruisers draw aggro from the groups and the escorts get the kills. Then each cruiser takes on one of the tarantulas and tanks it whilst the escorts clean up it's support ships, then they focus down each tarantula and tada, finished.

However in answer to the incompetence (since I just listed an example of competence), it's almost stupidly easy to get to level 50. And on your way up, you aren't taught much of anything other than the basic "use energy to kill shields, use kinetic to kill hull". Anything past that, like BOff abilities, DOff enhancements, etc, are self-learning, and let's be honest, most players in this game are idiots. They think that their builds that work in NORMAL difficulty missions work perfectly. Until they are taught otherwise in a PvP arena/ESTF. Then they become nerd-rage idiots (ones who refuse to change), or new players whom we can teach (and most of us gladly do so).

However now we must look at the Tholians. They are powerful enemies with lots of disables and are generally infuriating to fight. They keep your weapons and engines offline as a general rule, and are constantly lobbing tricobalts at you in addition to trapping you in webs pretty regularly. Even experienced players sometimes have trouble with this (myself included), so imagine if a fresh level 50 goes in there (with his lack of knowledge and only limited true battle experience and his build for normal difficulty missions). They get MAULED. I have seen it countless times. Give the Tholians the chance, and they will tear you apart. I have seen everything from science ships to escorts to BoPs to Odysseys to Bortasqus to raptors all slaughtered by the Tholians. Followed shortly by the raging about OP opponents and bugged ships.

It's actually very simple to fight the Tholians, once you get past the fact that they will make particularly STRONG efforts at keeping you disabled. They are squishy (at least their ships are when it comes to durability). They also use phased tetryon (so don't bother trying to keep your shields up, focus on hull heals). They use Subsystem Targetting (so use EPtW and ET to keep your weapons online). They also make webs constantly (so AoE abilities, like TS and BFAW are your friends). Take all that into account (plus the counters I put in), and you can win. It's just learning, which most level 50s don't do until they are forced to, and even then a lot of them still don't.

Hopefully that answered your question OP XD
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
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