Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,167
# 51
01-19-2013, 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Nevertheless, you know the cheese is bad when some of the old school Klingons don't queue for FvK with their Fed alts because of what they will see in it.
THIS! Thank you Snoge00f!
You're always an evul Klingun but also honest and fair!
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

I salute Adm. Marcus, a real Starfleet hero! Thanks to his courage we Tac Feds now have an awesome Cruiser, the USS Avenger!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 684
# 52
01-19-2013, 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
Really? Is that the best you can come up with? Are you sure you aren't dyslexic? There is professional help for that you know. All you have to do is ask...
Really? Is that the best you can come up with? Are you sure you aren't an idiot? There's professional help for that you know, all you have to do is ask...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 53
01-19-2013, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain01982 View Post
sounds like an over inflated ego to me
The OP in his first and other post sounds like a player who was beat by a skilled player who built his B'rel correctly for the job it was designed for in combat and after reading the second post where he refought the same player and still complained about the unfairness of a bird of Prey doing hit n' run attacks, I now think his yowling about it displays ineptitude that borders on the imbecillic.

And I mean that in a caring way.

Should we KDF players complain about the Defiants ability to decloak strike and loiter in combat, a combat role its very well designed for? I think not.

Its time to stop complaining OP over someone playing to the strengths of thier vessel and class and as others have said buck-up and learn to play to your strengths instead
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 54
01-19-2013, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Nevertheless, you know the cheese is bad when some of the old school Klingons don't queue for FvK with their Fed alts because of what they will see in it.
I dont play my fed other than to mine him for resources

I stopped queing for fvk arena pugs becuase if I don't remember or know* the PvPers involved I know its as sure s death and taxes that the losing side will blame cheese even when its not been used in the match.

Who the hell wants to play in any match where win or lose its always "the cheese" even if nobody ever pops a AA, DpB buffed Trics, siphon pods or anything cheesy to win and its just a matter of better skill and builds beat skill and builds?

Hell some players pvping now have such a skewed concept of knowledge but abundance of ego that now cloaking is cheese, Hit N run attacks are cheese, communication is cheese, etc etc, basically now even accepted and common tactics is cheese if you beat someone.

Thats the real cheese of STO PvP.
We are quick to complain at each other instead of pushing the Devs more to fix things it seems at times.
If siphon Drones are still not balanced - keep pushing.
AA not balanced - keep pushing
TB shuttles not balanced - keep pushing
etc etc.


I'll stick to Ker'rat** and the rare CnHs, where its more anything goes and I can PvP or try to win the missions, or both on my schedule but frankly I haven't played becuase one) as a KDF fan there is shytte-all to do really but PvP for fun and run foundry***and two) the egoes of those involved has spoiled the fun of it in arena.

*Those whom know me know I know you or at least remember you and know that your egoes dont lend to being easily hurt or gloatful.

** because I can leave if it gets cheesy without causing others to lose as well.

*** Some really good ones exist.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 55
01-19-2013, 02:05 PM
I was just reminded was I stopped liking FvK and STO in general. Ended in a match with cheese spaming mix of carriers and battlecruisers that killed my GPU while having usual Fed PUGers on my side. And now even FvF is not free from spamers.

Time return to Windows card games. If I want to fight against carrier I launch Harpoon and play Russians.

Last edited by zarathos1978; 01-19-2013 at 02:11 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 56
01-19-2013, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Irelevant to the thread...
I think the resulting discussion from my question shows pretty clearly that it isn't at all irrelevant to the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
as Klingons have always enjoyed killing feds more, never really had the numbers for KvK and we have never threatened to run hide when the battle gets tough in the FvK ques.
So you actually speak for all Klingon players everywhere now Roach?

Again, you like to bring up this "run and hide" statement, but it's pretty clear the Klingons want nothing to do with fighting other Klingons for the most part.




Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Nevertheless, you know the cheese is bad when some of the old school Klingons don't queue for FvK with their Fed alts because of what they will see in it.

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 57
01-19-2013, 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
So you actually speak for all Klingon players everywhere now Roach?

Again, you like to bring up this "run and hide" statement, but it's pretty clear the Klingons want nothing to do with fighting other Klingons for the most part.
The standard answer to your question has always been we would rather kill the feds than each other everytime a fed asks it trying to show evidence that we KDF do not want to fight each other as if we are scared of fighting ourselves due to cheese.

Its still a silly attempt at trying prove a mindset that doesn't exist among the KDF fanbase.

Every Klink I know often clicks to join KvK que and the Fvk arena and Fvk CnH, but when push comes to shove why would I want to fight someone we may know very well, have fought beside often enough to know the tactics they use and even puged arena's with when we can fight feds and get more satisfaction. Its not like our playerbase is as large as the feds to make it interesting for long.
I personally enjoy fighting those I see as the enemy than those I have called friends and fight alongside more ofted in my own faction.

hey, though you keep thinking it does prove something even though it means squat. All it shows me is the feds like to defend thier run hide attitude when they cant fight.

But since you think it does mean something, how do you explain the growing disatisfaction with FvF PvP? Where will you all run hide when you get tired of playing with yourselves?
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 58
01-19-2013, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I think the resulting discussion from my question shows pretty clearly that it isn't at all irrelevant to the thread.
what discussion? One yes, one No response? Thats hardly the whole of the KDF playerbase, though according to Cryptic it may not be far offbase.

As to speaking for the whole KDF, I do not, but as the response is always the same - we enjoy killing feds more - it felt safe to say so.

The OP though is just ******** more than anything else, and the " run and hide in FvF" is the second oldest response in the game when this happens, the oldest being " PvP is unfair". Folowed soon by the classic "KDF cloaking is unfair" threads, BoPs are OP threads and all manner of responses that puts the blaim anywhere but on the one crying about it becvuase they lost to a possibly better player.
Thats exactly what the OP describes. He lost to a player that played better than himself.

It happens all the time.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 59
01-19-2013, 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cent11 View Post
ok guys tonight i tried a different tac on a B rel in PvP i was in a Nova i used discharge particle III, did it work Hmm limited yes, did i kill the same guy hmm no, why? well he was immune to tractor and he got away in the blink of an eye. Polarise hull? attack pattern Omega? who knows i know once again i never saw him die, i think over 2 days seen this guy and another in Be rel 5-6 times not seen any deaths registered, now people have said on this thread there easy to kill! well maybe they are if you get hold of them.

Now since they are firing cloaked there hull buffs are probably only being used once they have been declaoked i.e. hull and shield, since they are a torp & mine boat where will there power be? obvoiusly in thier speed and shields, they don't need power in weapons cause it dont make any difference to torps. So its harder to hit because they are a small target and they move fast and if they unfortunate to be decloaked and tractored polarise hull or omega evasive manouvres and there gone. Basically you set that ship up right and its unlikely to be destroyed as i have witnessed, is that skill? i can have a pretty good guess how that ship is set up, never flown it. As for the old crap about its the skill not the ship and weapons the klinks use, how is it i spent a good minute dealing with a crap load off acetone asimm laid and there is no real person to be seen! so klinks deplo a crap load of devices and send thier pet after you to occupy with no risk to them selves thats skill,.

I used to play starfleet command and people somtimes complained that pvp in that was un balance especailly the mods, the problem was more about the ships themselves, however all the weapons were all available to all sides no one had the advantage, and klinks could be detected cloaked using certain tactics and destroyed if they didnt decloak, the skill sets were the same this made for far better balanced fights between fed v klinks than is currently the case in this game.

As for the comment made regarding being beat by a better skilled klink and that the reason to go back to fed v fed, i saw no skill in what he was dong press fire torp deploy assimulators and mines and just spam this make sure i cant be caught and basically its i can see you i can hit you but you cant see me and if you do i will run and come back when buffs have worn off! Its like another klink in a BOP i see often Lymru what does this guy do, he declaoks uses his alpha strike with beam overload III and if he hasnt taken you out he runs like the wind activating his Battle claok, never ever seen this guy hang around for more than 5 secs. Did he get tractored sure he did, like some one said here already just a 1 trick pony, o yes he has been chased but since he moves faster than light and he has his battle cloak which more than aid is get away. defaint pulled this trick, got caught by pursuing klinks could cloak because klinks caought up to him before cooldown had elapsed poor fed if only he has a battle cloak like Siskos ship! yep i see plenty of skill next klinks will be telling the pilots in the bug ship are really the best out there, and its just coincidence that they happen to be in the bug ship! but its not down to the bug ship being so good its solely down to them!
About Lymuv and his tactics:

In a majority of cases, especially with Bird of Prey's kitted out for Alpha Striking, it is what you are supposed to so: wait, activate Tac buffs, decloak, attack and either a) Destroy your opponent and leave, recloaking when it is off cooldown or b) Buff up, pray you don't die and GTFO quickly.

Why? Because a BOP is truly the most fragile ship in the game besides the Failquarius. They sacrificed hull, shields, and a weapon slot to gain universal stations and a battle cloak. The battle cloak is not an OP device, it is the BOP's lifeline, otherwise the poor ship will be destroyed by anything bigger than it, which is the Failquarius' main problem: BOP stats, but no way to escape when truly needed.

You should try the BOP, then come back when you realize how truly vulnerable you are when you are in it
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,114
# 60
01-19-2013, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
how do you explain the growing disatisfaction with FvF PvP?
Increase in availability of KDF cheese.
Increase in hybrid cheese.
Increase in Fed cheese.
Increase in broken cheese.

Overall increases in cheese.

Increased dissatisfaction with FvF PvP is a sign of increased dissatisfaction with PvP in general, no?

Along the lines of why some would suggest that KvK is worse...the increase in hybrid chease, the increase in Fed cheese, the increase in broken cheese, and the additional availability of KDF cheese not yet available to Feds make the KvK PvP worse than the FvF PvP...there's more cheese.

Consider the Dominion lockbox - if it adds Plasmonic Leech or Aceton Assimilators for the Feds...will there not be an increased dissatisfaction with FvF?

As for things like the Feds that complain about cloaking, I've always suggested that it's easy enough for them to get a KDF toon with a BoP - they should do that and try flying it without cloaking. Then they can come back and say whether they feel the same way about it or not...

As for premades, well - when somebody queues up for some casual PvP fun by joining the queues and they get slaughtered by a premade - it's not cheese, but it sure as Hell isn't any fun. Given the existence of the OPvP channel, the forums, etc, etc, etc - there are plenty of opportunities for premades to be able to find premades to fight each other if they're interested in challenging matches. If they're just looking to soften their skills while inflating their egos...well, they can keep pugstomping I suppose.

No doubt there are going to be folks out there that their fragile egos simply cannot accept that they lost for any other reason that cheese or some technical glitch, etc, etc, etc. I have an ego like that, kind of... my fragile ego simply cannot accept that I won for any other reason than I must unknowingly be using something that's cheese, broken, or that the person that lost experienced some technical glitch.

I go into a fight expecting to lose. I set expectations for myself pretty low - which usually means that when I lose, there's not this huge letdown - there's not that sense of disappointment or frustration, etc, etc, etc. Thing is, there is cheese and there is broken stuff - so there's still frustration involved - there's still a desire not to queue again. Yep, even with having gone into a match with the twisted mentality of expecting to lose...one can still have that effit feeling in regard to STO PvP because of cheese.

It's casual PvP. It's like peewee soccer. It's meaningless fun. You can still have fun in losing. Nobody's fighting for territory - it's not a case that you lose and the other sides taking over your planet, either selling your women into prostitution or paving over your ancestral farm to build a Wal-Mart. It's just casual PvP... good ol' pewpew fun. All the nonsense cheese and broken crap can ruin that...

...so yeah, I can easily see a reason for the increased dissatisfaction with FvF PvP.
...and yeah, I can see where the crossfaction console in the Dominion lockbox is only going to make that worse.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
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