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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 31
01-19-2013, 04:57 PM
I don't think anyone gives Rats-A$$ about the lower tier version of Ambassador. T3 or T4 nobody cares. Players will actually use the T5 version...plain and simple.

As for what you're going to see with the Ambassador, it's fairly easy. Ambassador might maneuver closer to an Excelsior, have a lower hull than Galaxy, and a slightly different BOFF layout the Galaxy/Excelsior. Probably a special console, and some different skins (Yamaguchi, Zhukov,1701-C, etc). It is what it is.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,959
# 32
01-19-2013, 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon92518 View Post
I don't think anyone gives Rats-A$$ about the lower tier version of Ambassador. T3 or T4 nobody cares. Players will actually use the T5 version...plain and simple.
Regardless the same basic stats we see in the T3 will translate to T5, its not suddenly going to gain more turn rate at T5 and goes from a Lt. Cmdr Eng to a Cmdr Sci.

T3 will be the base of T5.

Will anyone use the T3 Ambassador? likely not because we level 50 and the T3 ship is not really designed for lv 50 content.

Not that ever stopped people from entering Fleet Red Alters on T1 Connies or anything ... also I am not sure what will happen after, if the ship will became available normally at T3 for all players or not ... its certainly not going to go "puff" were the T5 will only be sold in the Zen Store during the Anniversary.

And andoriansrus, Cruisers have Cmdr Eng stations, just like Sci ships have Cmdr Sci stations and Escorts have Cmdr stations ... this is a basic rule, there are few odd ships with the Breen warship having a Cmdr Tactical or the Recluse Uni Cmdr but those are the odd ones out, even the Galor and D'Kora have a Cmdr station as they are Cruisers.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,925
# 33
01-19-2013, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Caption.


It says all, it was something that never really entered real production, only a few ships were build.

As you mentioned the Breen ship this opens the question of were the Kamarag can fit, we have Tactical Battlecruisers (Vorcha) and Heavy "tank" Cruisers (Negh'Var) so there is a question were this will lie, I do not think its going to be a Science Ship as Federation Science ships because ... well SA and Cloak? we are in the PvP forum so I dont need to say more.

If its going to be a cruiser and much points to that then we have the usual discussion of cruisers, if it lacks tactical stations and its some kind of Negh'Var with a science bend I would say its going to be as welcomed as the Bortas for different reasons.

huh, not sure how i missed that. what a stupid caption, thers no reason a cruiser thats a step between a vorcha and ktinga shouldn't be mass produced. there would be a massive hole in their ship lineup durring that time with no such ship in large numbers.

the vorcha and ktinga are only slightly tactical leaning, i see the fleet vorcha setup as the true setup for the vorcha though, it fits it best. im not even going to try to apply logic to the fleet tktinga and what it should have though. between all that is an excelcior style setup, lots of sci seems pretty left field of that.

i think we are going to see a breen ship counterpart in the dominion heavy escort, same stats just a LTC eng. the dominion cruiser im guessing will basicly be a negvar with a LTC of ether tac or sci, and DHC use.




Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Like I said, "Optimistic" as opposed to "gee, yet another cruiser, yawn."

As to the lockbox ****-er, ships, ready?

they really don't count in terms of filling the roster. Honestly. they don't. Going by your logic, the KDF already has a top-end escort because the JHAS comes in a lockbox.

The Krenn is, after all, just a reskin of the Wells with some capabilities gimped, and it has no availability unless someone buys Lockbox keys, just like the Jem ship...
the 2 kdf temperal ships are great escorts and sci ships no mater how much you wish they didnt exist. they are also explicitly klingon too. the market is pretty flush with them on the exchange last i checked. the bug is a universal ship that has nothing to do with anything here. for once its cruisers that we haven't seen in a wile. and not just any cruiser, a kdf cruiser that can turn and use DHC. these are some of the most interesting ships there are period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
Given that what is canon is dictated by appearing on screen, there is no way you can say this.
i should have said in universe. its ilogical for such a thing not to have existed
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,114
# 34
01-19-2013, 07:55 PM
I think the problem with the hole that could have and likely should have existed between the K't'inga and the Vor'cha...just speaks to how many times the K't'inga was refitted/retrofitted during those hundred years. It also speaks of a difference in philosophy between the KDF and Federation. Though, in a sense - that could really come down to a form of "plot armor" because of the basis of Star Trek being the Federation...and even the financial aspects of production in regard to developing additional Klingon ships during the run of shows and movies.

From Memory Alpha (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/K%27t%27inga_class) we have:

For nearly a century, the K't'inga-class cruiser proved to be a rugged, sturdy design that saw continuous use. In that aspect they were much like their Federation counterparts the Excelsior-class and Miranda-class starships, whose usefulness outlived contemporaries such as the Constitution-class cruiser.

Sure enough, if we look at those ships:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Excelsior_class 2280s-late 24th.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Miranda_class 2280s-late 24th.

While the Connie (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Constitution_class) was 2240s-2270s.

Yep, for the most part it's just plot - TOS, movies, TNG, etc, etc, etc.

However, they've kind of stuck in the K't'inga in with the Excelsior/Miranda-like ship...the extended workhorse ship. They didn't treat it like the "show" ship. They wouldn't have - it wasn't. So the KDF battle cruisers didn't necessarily see what we did going from the Connie to the Connie refit to the Connie refit to the Excelsior to the Ambassador to the Galaxy even up to the Sovereign.

There was Connie/D-7. Connie-refit/K't'inga. Excelsior/K't'inga. Ambassador/K't'inga. Galaxy/K't'inga. Sovereign/K't'inga-Vor'cha-Negh'var.

Thing is, the Excelsior was still around during the Ambassador, Galaxy, and Sovereign as well. So in a sense, the K't'inga could be said to be akin to the Excelsior...in that long length of service sort of thing. Connies weren't in service as long as the Excelsior. Both the Ambassador and Galaxy had "shorter" runs than the Excelsior. Even the Sovereign did as far as STO's concerned with the introduction of the Odyssey.

Is it possible the KDF had ships other than the K't'inga like the Federation had ships other than the Excelsior during that period of time...ships that were like the K't'inga like the Feds had ships like the Excelsior?

I think they tried to introduce that there was a different philosophy to discount that, but in the end - I think it was really about the production costs of making additional models. There was a lot of reuse of models in the shows/movies because of their costs. As things got more into CGI...we saw more ships, eh?

It is difficult to think that the Klingons ran the same flagship for a hundred years or so, though... it's just a case that they really haven't given us another ship saying they didn't go D-7 to K't'inga to Vor'cha without there being a flagship between the K & V...

...it will be interesting to see if that's what they do with the Kamarag.

Still think they should have gone with the K'vort Cruiser BoP - to go with the B'rel Scout BoP. They could have introduced the "Kamarag" as a new 25th century ship when introducing the Kumari for the Feds... but that's just me.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,389
# 35
01-19-2013, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
huh, not sure how i missed that. what a stupid caption, thers no reason a cruiser thats a step between a vorcha and ktinga shouldn't be mass produced. there would be a massive hole in their ship lineup durring that time with no such ship in large numbers.

the vorcha and ktinga are only slightly tactical leaning, i see the fleet vorcha setup as the true setup for the vorcha though, it fits it best. im not even going to try to apply logic to the fleet tktinga and what it should have though. between all that is an excelcior style setup, lots of sci seems pretty left field of that.

i think we are going to see a breen ship counterpart in the dominion heavy escort, same stats just a LTC eng. the dominion cruiser im guessing will basicly be a negvar with a LTC of ether tac or sci, and DHC use.






the 2 kdf temperal ships are great escorts and sci ships no mater how much you wish they didnt exist. they are also explicitly klingon too. the market is pretty flush with them on the exchange last i checked. the bug is a universal ship that has nothing to do with anything here. for once its cruisers that we haven't seen in a wile. and not just any cruiser, a kdf cruiser that can turn and use DHC. these are some of the most interesting ships there are period.



i should have said in universe. its ilogical for such a thing not to have existed
The Temporal ships are Lockbox ships, just like the JHAS is, or the Ferengi ship-all of which you see in IKS colours almost as often as USS colours.

which brings up the elephant you're ignoring-availability. I suppose someone with three years' constant grind worth of EC, that's not a problem, or for someone willing to spend a two-week paycheck on lockbox keys that's not an issue-but for the rest of us, Lockboxes are kind of a sideshow, not main-line and therefore, by definition, outside the discussion of main line-up.

as for a "Drought of cruisers"...um, NO. we're actually in a position (KDF side) where there's not a lot you can improve in the existing cruiser lineup, even with the Breen cruiser out there.

IOW we don't NEED another Cruiser-of any sort. But we're getting one regardless, because, frankly, it's easier to copy/paste something meant for Fed fans, than to design an entirely different ship.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,617
# 36
01-19-2013, 09:06 PM
Give me another B'rel upgrade that isn't the fleet version.


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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,959
# 37
01-19-2013, 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I think the problem with the hole that could have and likely should have existed between the K't'inga and the Vor'cha...
You are trying to apply logic to something that was constrained by a budget.

We had the TOS that had few ships as you had the Constitution, you had the D7 and you had the Romulan Bird-of-Prey with the D7 actually first being shown as a Romulan ship.

Then TOS ended, fast forward and we have Star Trek: The Motion Picture that did not well enough to relaunch the TV series but did well enough for more movies, the D7 became the K't'inga and the Constitution was refit, fast forward and Wrath of Khan and the Miranda class that was the second Federation class we ever seen, then comes Search for Spock with the Oberth and the Excelsior being added and a new klingon ship, the Bird-of-prey and originally the script was to have Romulans and this is pretty much were it ends, no new ships were added since then in the TOS Movie series.

Now TNG started and movies have higher budgets and so those ships we seen in the movies were re-used in TNG along with new models being added since this was the time were CGI was expensive and was simply "not done" because of costs, this was one of the reasons the Enterprise rarely saucer separated because it simply costed too much.

Reason why we had K't'ingas and Excelsiors was because of TMP and SFS, the K't'inga was not even that much used as it was only used 4 times in TNG and one of those times was as a model, the Vor'cha class was used about twice as many times (7, I am not counting "as a painting") that shows they rather use the newer model they build, sadly things get messy with the Negh'Var in DS9 as it was only shown in TNG in "Best of Both Worlds".

Ah, DS9 ... how much a mess you are and what a mess you made.

In short, a lot of you are trying to explain is rationalization for what was budget considerations as we know the K't'inga was used in Enterprise because the model they wanted to use ended up not being used and they had to use something.

In Trek the K't'inga is not just everlasting, its omnipresent as even one managed to find its way into that series.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,114
# 38
01-19-2013, 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
You are trying to apply logic to something that was constrained by a budget.
You took the first sentence of the following paragraph:

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I think the problem with the hole that could have and likely should have existed between the K't'inga and the Vor'cha...just speaks to how many times the K't'inga was refitted/retrofitted during those hundred years. It also speaks of a difference in philosophy between the KDF and Federation. Though, in a sense - that could really come down to a form of "plot armor" because of the basis of Star Trek being the Federation...and even the financial aspects of production in regard to developing additional Klingon ships during the run of shows and movies.
It was two sentences later...where budget was mentioned.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 39
01-19-2013, 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon92518 View Post
I don't think anyone gives Rats-A$$ about the lower tier version of Ambassador. T3 or T4 nobody cares. Players will actually use the T5 version...plain and simple.

As for what you're going to see with the Ambassador, it's fairly easy. Ambassador might maneuver closer to an Excelsior, have a lower hull than Galaxy, and a slightly different BOFF layout the Galaxy/Excelsior. Probably a special console, and some different skins (Yamaguchi, Zhukov,1701-C, etc). It is what it is.
Well, lets hope that those skins actually work. I am still trying to change the appearance of my Fleet Excelsior, to no avail.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
# 40
01-19-2013, 10:39 PM
Ambassador and VorD7
850 crew
4 fore
4 aft
Shields as good as Dreadnaught
Cm Eng
LT CM Sci
LT eng
LT tac
ens tac or uni
4 eng consoles
3 sci consoles
2 tac consoles


This is my hope. I've even actually started praying for it and will have a case of beer for Geko if he gets close.
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