Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,262
# 1 STO's Terrible Ship Models
01-20-2013, 02:31 PM
I just wanted to throw this out there. I already sent a complaint to PWE CS, but their response was to post something here, so here I am.

I realize that any recreation of a CGI model made for a television show or movie will be flawed. That's to be expected (unless you are a Star Trek: Bridge Commander modeler).

However, I've noticed a slew of errors, some that are careless and easily corrected, and some which are bad interpretations of a CGI or actual model. I've posted my annotations to each image with problems. Note that this is by no means a complete list, there are numerous ships in STO with similar problems, but these are the most apparent or the sloppiest errors.

EDIT: Due to the high number and interest in this thread, I am revising this page to include many errors from all different types of ships. Hopefully, this new arrangement helps speed up your loading of this page as well.

Sovereign-class:
Sovereign Deflector
Sovereign Saucer

Galaxy-X Dreadnought:
Dreadnought Lance, Fore
Dreadnought Lance, Fore 2
Dreadnought Saucer, Fore

Galaxy-class:
Galaxy, Fore
Galaxy, Fore 2

Intrepid-class
Intrepid, Fore

Let's get Cryptic to fix these sloppy errors. They're easily fixed, and don't require as much time to fix as, say, the STF leaver penalty code or other Season 7 mishaps.

EDIT: Several people have proposed, including myself, that Cryptic allow players to get a shot at modifying and improving the models, without being paid in any form. Cryptic, if you are not willing/have the time to fix the ship models, perhaps let the community do it for you (similar to the concept of the Foundry)?

stardestroyer001, VA Explorers Fury | Email me for a Pro-Galaxy sig!
My Useful List of STO Forum Threads, Ship Builds & More! | My Forum Gripes
Foundry: A new series coming soon! | PvP: PvP Boot Camp, Notebook Project Almost Done!

Last edited by stardestroyer001; 05-07-2013 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Revamp, added intrepid-class errors
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 2
01-20-2013, 02:49 PM
You say they're "easily fixed", how much experience do you have with 3D modelling, UV mapping, texturing etc?

It's not like you can just use Paint to cut and paste the parts where they should be


I'd prefer the modelling team work on new models , rather than making incredibly minor alterations that only a fraction of the player-base notice, and even less actually care about.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,231
# 3
01-20-2013, 02:56 PM
Meh, I really don't have any problem with these very minor model errors. I am sure they are aware of these issues and its just very low on the list of priorities, where they should be. Much bigger fish to fry. In normal game play you won't see the items you have highlighted.



Edit: I moved this thread to the art forum so the right team will see it, and so the images show up. -Brandon
Federation Bushrangers
Federation & Imperial Bushrangers
Looking for an Australian/New Zealand fleet?
Sign up here:
www.bushrangers.net

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 01-20-2013 at 03:09 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 4
01-20-2013, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstocbr View Post
Edit: I moved this thread to the art forum so the right team will see it, and so the images show up. -Brandon
Brandon, on the off-chance you come back to this thread, can we have the "not needing to click to see an image" feature forum-wide?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 5
01-20-2013, 03:43 PM
This is an "obsessive Star Trek nerd" parody thread, right?
_________________
Nebula coffee is the best coffee
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,915
# 6
01-20-2013, 03:54 PM
I believe JamJamz knows about the off-center Gal-X lance and is going to fix it when he has time.

As for the Sovereign and Galaxy... oh boy. Back when the game launched three years ago, those two models in particular looked awful. All of the early ships were rush jobs. CapnLogan fixed both of them up quite a bit, but never had time to completely redo them, which is what they need.

I doubt the current art team is going to get time to do it, either.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,262
# 7
01-20-2013, 04:24 PM
Quote:
You say they're "easily fixed", how much experience do you have with 3D modelling, UV mapping, texturing etc?

It's not like you can just use Paint to cut and paste the parts where they should be


I'd prefer the modelling team work on new models , rather than making incredibly minor alterations that only a fraction of the player-base notice, and even less actually care about.
If the 3d modelling is such an issue, there are fan-made ship models out there that look ten times as good.
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com...overeign;17665

And I would rather have the ships look decently canon than have a whole bunch of low-quality ships running around. I am glad, however, that Cryptic did fix the error with the Vesta warp engines not showing the proper shield texture. It seems at least one of my points in the CS thread was taken seriously.

Quote:
This is an "obsessive Star Trek nerd" parody thread, right?
This is Star Trek. Part of the deal when you are involved with anything Trek is the technical consistency.

Quote:
I believe JamJamz knows about the off-center Gal-X lance and is going to fix it when he has time.

As for the Sovereign and Galaxy... oh boy. Back when the game launched three years ago, those two models in particular looked awful. All of the early ships were rush jobs. CapnLogan fixed both of them up quite a bit, but never had time to completely redo them, which is what they need.

I doubt the current art team is going to get time to do it, either.
That's what I'm hoping this thread will do, bump this up in the to-do list so they will have the time to fix these sloppy errors.

stardestroyer001, VA Explorers Fury | Email me for a Pro-Galaxy sig!
My Useful List of STO Forum Threads, Ship Builds & More! | My Forum Gripes
Foundry: A new series coming soon! | PvP: PvP Boot Camp, Notebook Project Almost Done!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 8
01-20-2013, 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
If the 3d modelling is such an issue, there are fan-made ship models out there that look ten times as good.
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com...overeign;17665
Different engine, different format. Additionally, fan-made add-ons can also be as detailed as the creator wants to make them, they don't have to cater to the low-end PC owner whose PC slows down because someone parks an incredibly highly detailed model next to their own ship.

Also, time constraints.

From the ship you linked: "After nearly two years in development, it's finally here."
I don't know how much time JamJamz gets to put into each specific ship before having to work on the next, but it's a hell of a lot more restricted than someone that can spend months/years perfecting their own personal models. Even if JJ did decide to fix these, there simply might not be enough space in the schedule with all the upcoming new vessels.

They also say "First off, this thing is meant to look pretty first, and be playable second." MMOs generally have to playable first, looks are... not so much secondary, but not a priority. That's why even the biggest online games sometimes look like cartoons compared to the major single player releases.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,262
# 9
01-20-2013, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
Different engine, different format. Additionally, fan-made add-ons can also be as detailed as the creator wants to make them, they don't have to cater to the low-end PC owner whose PC slows down because someone parks an incredibly highly detailed model next to their own ship.

Also, time constraints.

From the ship you linked: "After nearly two years in development, it's finally here."
I don't know how much time JamJamz gets to put into each specific ship before having to work on the next, but it's a hell of a lot more restricted than someone that can spend months/years perfecting their own personal models. Even if JJ did decide to fix these, there simply might not be enough space in the schedule with all the upcoming new vessels.

They also say "First off, this thing is meant to look pretty first, and be playable second." MMOs generally have to playable first, looks are... not so much secondary, but not a priority. That's why even the biggest online games sometimes look like cartoons compared to the major single player releases.
There are numerous conversion programs out there for converting the .nif format into ones used by 3DS Max, Blender, etc. There's also low- and medium-resolution models included with the example download I posted. In the worst case scenario, the textures can be shrunk to lose resolution along with the lower polygon count in the lower .nif models. There's multiple workarounds to the sorts of problems you're listing, and none of them are a sort of impossible feat.

And yes, MMOs generally have to be playable. However, since this game is almost three years standing, it's fair to say that some of the ships in STO are due for an overhaul. Also, I'm not saying it has to be done "Now, Now, NOW!". I realize there are other ships they need to release or fix first (like the Ambassador class, which looks quite good from the one screenshot). I'm just saying that Cryptic should add these problems to the fix-it list and take it seriously; and get them updated so they're on par with the better quality ships released within the last year or so. I suppose having to experience Battlestar Galactica Online's terrible feedback forum makes me a little pushy, since they never took considerations seriously there, but I still stand with my opinion.

Quote:
I think you meant to write, "Obsessive nerdery" there.
I know what I meant to write. Thanks for the suggestion, but I stand by what I said. Technical consistency is one of the expectations when any person or group is involved with anything Trek. Obsessive is a subjective term.

EDIT: Looks like "twg042370"'s post was removed.

stardestroyer001, VA Explorers Fury | Email me for a Pro-Galaxy sig!
My Useful List of STO Forum Threads, Ship Builds & More! | My Forum Gripes
Foundry: A new series coming soon! | PvP: PvP Boot Camp, Notebook Project Almost Done!

Last edited by stardestroyer001; 01-20-2013 at 06:04 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,092
# 10
01-20-2013, 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
Different engine, different format. Additionally, fan-made add-ons can also be as detailed as the creator wants to make them, they don't have to cater to the low-end PC owner whose PC slows down because someone parks an incredibly highly detailed model next to their own ship.
Formats can be converted.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:24 PM.