Heh, people complaining about the dread carrier...

My Atrox puts out a ton of damage, even with her turn 5 and me not loading cannons on her. Thats with a lt tac. People undersestimate the amount of damage pets do under the right curcumstances.

The dread carrier is going to be a nightmare beast in PvE. PvP it will be another carrier. Yay.

If you can't figure out how to make the dread carrier a PvE beast, I'd sugest retirement, that or maybe Hello Kitty Adventure Island.

Dread Bug...vs Vo'quv and Kar'Fi (not comparing the Mirror nor Fleet Vo'quv):

Hull
+3000
+10500

Shield Modifier
+0.15
-0.05

Crew
-500
+500

Weapons
+1 Fore

Devices
-1

Consoles
+2 Tac, +1 Eng, -2 Sci
+1 Tac, +2 Eng, -2 Sci

Turn Rate
+1
-1

Impulse Modifier
+0.02
+0.02

Inertia
???

Power
+10 Weapon
+5 Aux

Other
Has Subsystem Targeting like the Vo'quv. Only one of the three that can equip Bug pets if you've got a Bug. Kar'Fi has the PSG console. Dread Bug has the DCI console and can use the Heavy Bug's DCP console (which means the 2pc bonus if both are used).

Okay then, so how about those BOFF layouts?

Dread Bug: CMDR LT LCDR EN LT
Vo'quv: LCDR LCDR CMDR LT
Kar'Fi: LCDR LT LT CMDR EN

While it's not as simple as just a "count" of abilities, it obviously stands out how the Dread Bug compares to the other two in regard to Sci abilities. EN plus possible LT vs. CMDR LT/CMDR EN. You'd be looking at either comparing a CMDR slot to an EN or LT slot. Yeah, Sci is not the Dread Bug's thing. That's also reflected in having 2 fewer Sci consoles than either the Vo'quv or Kar'Fi.

It picks up that CMDR level ability over both of them (and that Tac'ness is reflected in the 4/3 weapons as well as the +2/+1 Tac consoles). Compared to the Vo'quv, it also has the additional LT Tac slot.

Like the Tac angle, the Dread Bug has +1 Eng console compared to the Vo'quv and +2 Eng consoles compared to the Kar'Fi. The option exists to use that LT Uni as another Eng slot over the Vo'quv, while even at base it has the LCDR level ability over the Kar'Fi (with the option of using that LT Uni still).

You can't think of the Dread Bug like you would the Vo'quv or the Kar'Fi. That change in Sci is...a big change. First off, there's no GW/PSW/VM. Then, there's no "3" of any Sci ability. CPB, ES, FBP, PO, TBR, SS. and TR are all limited to "1" if you were to take them.

Meanwhile, looking at the CMDR Tac - you're not looking at any abilities you couldn't take - just "2" and "3" of abilities you could. You gain access to APO2/3, and "3" for APB, APD, CRF, CSV, and DPB.

Compared to the Kar'Fi, the LCDR Eng slot gives you access to AB1 and EWP1 (as well as "2" and "3" for various other abilities).

Yep, it's basically a somewhat tanky "Escort" BOFF layout...on a ship with a turn of 6. Which is why, imho, there have been the comments about it being a PvE boat and a PvP failboat. Without the Sci goodies, that extra hull's not going to mean much as somebody chews through that extra hull in the blink of an eye. PvE on the other hand, I can see it being fun.

Heck, I'd still fly it in PvP if I ever picked it up - but I do flaky things like that. Sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't. Heh, think about how much hull you could still have when hitting GDF at 50% or lower...it's already fun to do that in a Vo'qvu - can picture that with the two additional Tac consoles as well as an APO3 instead of an APO1, etc, etc, etc.

I'm actually thinking of the power of a carrier that provides its own AP:B3 with 2 racks of elite scorps... AP:O is nice but AP:B helps your pets and teammates as well.

I tend to think in regards to movement... but yeah, given the DCI and DCP consoles as well as the 2pc bonus - dropping out APB on targets could be interesting.

Its a PvE ship and probably be one of the strongest.

If you are complaining from a PvP perspective than I dont know what to tell you. Before the stats were released everyone was complaining about them being overpowered, then once the stats were released, 6 hours later, people were complaining they were too weak.

If you dont like the ship dont fly it. There are alot of other carriers with different boff layouts that can fill your desire.

To be fair, couldn't there be some happy middleground? Why do things have to be OP or UP? It's like we're all Goldilocks looking for the third option...

Because that's generally how this game works.

I think the ships are great and will be fine. But spend more than 2 minutes on this forum and people will find a way to cry about anything, hence my post of the contradiction that exist. The only time I really care about any of this stuff is when cryptic actually listens to all the crybabies that are nothing but an overwhelming loud minority.

One man's OP is another man's UP, is another man's 'middle-ground'.

If you mention any one thing in this game we can do or use, you'll probably get all 3 answers. One person will say it's overpowered for reason X, another will say it's underpowered for reason Y, and another will say it's fine as is for reason Z, maybe also including reasons X and Y.

Example:

RMC

Reason X: It's overpowered because it allows you to repair ALL subsystems and give a large boost for no other cost.

Reason Y: It's not really that powerful, considering that the power can still be drained, and you can be re-disabled.

Reason Z: It's fine as is, because it provides a good boost to power and repairs systems, but also has such a long cooldown, you have to use it strategically. Also, if you get disabled again, have another power ready to fix it, don't overly rely on it.

A simple example, but still, it's there. Mention anything, and pretty much it'll always be split into 3.

The real problem lies in actually figuring out what the item/ship/etc actually is: OP, UP, or middle-ground.

To be honest I was hoping for this BOFF layout:

• 1 Commander Tactical,
• 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal,
• 1 Lieutenant Engineering,
• 1 Lieutenant Science

Allows for more customization than the current set-up and different careers could use it and use the universal for their career powers.

Shame it is the way it is, I rarely use engineering powers and I find the BOFF set-up a major incentive not to get the ship.