Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 54
# 121
01-26-2013, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
Sure we'd still have the afk nonsense, if someone is ingenious enough to space out 25 mobs with a long patrol or something.

And WHEN they did, you all would be right back here with your pitchforks and torches: BURN THE HERETIC!!

Ultimately, your picking another fight with the majority of the playerbase in order to force them to play your way. It never works out the way you planned, as you can see with how abolishing the clickers have turned out for you.

Last edited by grindisbaddesign; 01-26-2013 at 05:07 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 122
01-26-2013, 05:33 PM
I have no problem with Grinders, so long as they worked it into a reasonable story. Meaning, a weapons test of some kind.

It's the flat looking, zero dialog grinder missions that bother me. Not a fan of those super stack item farmer missions either.

I myself have made a few grinder style missions, but they always had a story mission behind them that made logical sense.

Example: A one year ship rundown of your weapon systems against holographic enemy contacts. Not only is there dialog with a patrol ship in the area that is administrating the test, but you have to activate the generator beacon to begin the test and collect the data from said beacon after the test is concluded.

So long as it has a logical story behind the grinder, I am cool with them.

Last edited by gstamo01; 01-26-2013 at 05:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 531
# 123
01-26-2013, 06:15 PM
I think the last three pages have proven that there is a large emphasis for the needs of the rewards from the IOR repeatable do to its rewards in comparison to the other sources of DL and FMs. (EC is debatable since those missions were there when Foundry first dropped loot, and back when it started dropping loot again. Just now that you can get DL and FMs with it there is more "WOOOO" involved.)

I am of the opinion that the state of acclimation to the new system (and perhaps the honest low rewards from the FM based Missions from PuGging them) has made the current rewards disproportionate. The result is people after the fastest and people assuming this is why foundry rewards were implemented.

Adjustment of the rewards given by IOR or the Rewards given by other missions (Say Fleet Missions gave double FMs than currently and 480dl or something) is the only way to stem the poor grinder mission behavior. ("Poor" being the AFK or Boff Hunt missions, tied with perhaps the Contraband and EC grinder missions)

Possible short term solutions until we get the better reward system in place, bump the repeat timer up to 45 minutes. The rewards would match 3 Fleet Mission runs or 2 Normal STF runs timewise. People would still take the easy way, but, IOR won't feel like this needed necessity over a casual reward for time spent.


However, the comments about the improved UI and search features are something we need to keep focused on because the damage has been done.

If tomorrow rewards were all removed (which I don't think is the right course of action) we'd still have the problem of the Grinders clogging the list. Now no one will play them to down rate one with a 80% 5 star ratio. Conversely, without rewards the vast majority of plays will again slim and good missions won't get up voted a fair speed.

No matter what happens with the rewards or if these missions types stay or go, we have a problem. All of us. ANY new mission of ANY type is going to have it harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 124
01-26-2013, 06:26 PM
I will say that people tend to see more loot in a single foundry grind than they do spending an hour in an expanse. This needs to be addressed.

Should stop calling it the Foundry though. It's the Grindry.

Last edited by gstamo01; 01-26-2013 at 06:29 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 125
01-26-2013, 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstamo01 View Post
Example: A one year ship rundown of your weapon systems against holographic enemy contacts. Not only is there dialog with a patrol ship in the area that is administrating the test, but you have to activate the generator beacon to begin the test and collect the data from said beacon after the test is concluded.
I've actually used this mission to test my ships and boffs and it is useful. But the ones with five waves of five inactive Borg cubes can go rot.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 481
# 126
01-26-2013, 06:59 PM
Here is the bottom line for all you complainers about grinders, if it wasn't for the grinders I and most of the people who use them still wouldn't play your story line missions. You keep whining on and on about how noone wants to play your story missions, why would getting rid of the easy missions change this? If I am using a grinder mission its because i want quick easy dilithium and/or marks, if they were not there I would simply run an STF instead, they are much quicker than most story missions. Given the massive increase in dilithium demand with no real increase in supply that we have seen with S7 grinder missions are almost a necessity. If you seriously think that removing the grinder missions would get you guys one more play through of your story missions you are deluding yourselves.

A real solution to getting your missions played through would be to have a process where missions could be submitted for approval, and if they met a specified standard would drop random very rare xi or xii items at the end. If a system like this was in place I and others would be more inclined to play your missions.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 289
# 127
01-26-2013, 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by john98837 View Post
Here is the bottom line for all you complainers about grinders, if it wasn't for the grinders I and most of the people who use them still wouldn't play your story line missions. You keep whining on and on about how noone wants to play your story missions, why would getting rid of the easy missions change this? If I am using a grinder mission its because i want quick easy dilithium and/or marks, if they were not there I would simply run an STF instead, they are much quicker than most story missions. Given the massive increase in dilithium demand with no real increase in supply that we have seen with S7 grinder missions are almost a necessity. If you seriously think that removing the grinder missions would get you guys one more play through of your story missions you are deluding yourselves.

A real solution to getting your missions played through would be to have a process where missions could be submitted for approval, and if they met a specified standard would drop random very rare xi or xii items at the end. If a system like this was in place I and others would be more inclined to play your missions.
That is a great Idea. If someone told me that the Foundry mission with a 5 star rate would have a chance at XII purple ACC X2 wep and or some special gear then I would be all over it. If I want a good Star Trek story I'll read one of the books. For me to run a mission there has to be someting in it for me at the end. (sorry if this makes some mad) But for some the 5-6 hundred thousand they made off of a grinder allowed them to save up pretty fast and buy something nice. If other non-grinder missions had some XII purple stuff in it I would play every single one of them.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 31
# 128
01-26-2013, 08:18 PM
I think it's that the way the stories are presented that's failing to engage players. It's a case of these popup text boxes interrupting your gameplay instead of a story grabbing your attention for most people. Short of having custom audio and a solid cutscene tool, the story should be told through the characters, having speech bubbles appear overhead and have their actions play out in that perspective.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 54
# 129
01-26-2013, 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunch2600 View Post
I think it's that the way the stories are presented that's failing to engage players. It's a case of these popup text boxes interrupting your gameplay instead of a story grabbing your attention for most people. Short of having custom audio and a solid cutscene tool, the story should be told through the characters, having speech bubbles appear overhead and have their actions play out in that perspective.
Keep in mind, the Foundry is in many ways inferior to the editor that came with Morrowwind in 2002.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 531
# 130
01-26-2013, 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by john98837 View Post
Here is the bottom line for all you complainers about grinders, if it wasn't for the grinders I and most of the people who use them still wouldn't play your story line missions. You keep whining on and on about how noone wants to play your story missions, why would getting rid of the easy missions change this? If I am using a grinder mission its because i want quick easy dilithium and/or marks, if they were not there I would simply run an STF instead, they are much quicker than most story missions. Given the massive increase in dilithium demand with no real increase in supply that we have seen with S7 grinder missions are almost a necessity. If you seriously think that removing the grinder missions would get you guys one more play through of your story missions you are deluding yourselves.

A real solution to getting your missions played through would be to have a process where missions could be submitted for approval, and if they met a specified standard would drop random very rare xi or xii items at the end. If a system like this was in place I and others would be more inclined to play your missions.

Two things;
First, you're not playing our story missions anyways by the way you explained yourself there. And although I would like to see rewards stay, we did get players even when mobs in foundry didn't drop anything. So, take that as you will.

Second, That specific reward scheme you mentioned is exactly what is coming to the spotlight foundry missions. It actually was on Tribble during the S7 testing, but needed to be recalled do to bugs. It will probably be fully operational again soon (tm).
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