Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 547
# 61
01-24-2013, 10:04 PM
From this discussion and how it has progressed, we can identify two solid problems that are probably the biggest.

Number 1:
Proportional Rewards / General State of Fleet Building
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbenzinger View Post
For what it's worth, I thought I would pitch my two cents into this conversation as someone who has used the foundry for both story and grind missions. I admire those of you who author well thought out and beautifully put together missions and I can't even begin to imagine the frustrations you experience when looking at the "Hot" list on the foundry menu. That said (hang in there with me), lately the majority of foundry missions I've been playing are the grind missions and Battleship Royale Rumble. Usually these are the only missions I will do when I have an hour or two after work during the week to play; saving the 1 hour plus "foundry story missions" (for lack of a better term) for the weekends when I have more time to play.

The sole reason for this is: Fleet Marks.
This guy nailed it. I recently finished grinding out T5 Omega and corresponding rewards and turned back to my fleet, starting in on the FM missions again. And playing those missions I realized I had forgot something. You get like, 17 fleet marks. That's it. A little over a mark a minute. Playing the fleet missions in the bonus block, 34ish is the average for one mission. And the Fleetmarks given by the IOR mission, 50. FIFTY! Daaaaamn. I mean, we know it is a lot, but this is almost ridiculous. There is no contest looking at it logically why "NOT" to do the most efficient way of getting these possible. And compared to the rewards of the "normal way" to get them, it honestly looks like this 50 FM reward is the way you are SUPPOSED to get fleet marks.

That wasn't the intention of Cryptic, they just wanted to say, "Hey, you want to help your fleet, well, you can now do that with foundry missions. Here." But that's not what people are doing. It's apparent that the majority (not just a large number, but THEE large number of most of the online players) think the purpose for the Foundry is the Fleet Mark rewards from the IOR daily. You have a fleet sitting at T3 with some 20 members and it crawls. Here, you can just get 50 marks, bamb. That's how you can help as a little guy. Anything else, right now, is... well... a waste in comparison.

Where this should be good because it gives players who play the foundry a reward, it's viewed backwards. The reward is for playing the foundry. Nothing any of us from players to authors do can change that. Right now the situation of the Fleet Building for mid to small sized fleets and the rewards processed for foundry playing are king.

Until the system for giving rewards is refined further, how people are playing the missions now is how it is going to be.


Number 2: A needed working and decent Search Filter for Mission Types.

We just need a better way to filter and search through missions.

We know this is in the works, any author with history knows that the Devs have gotten lists from us as far as tags we'd like to have or other ways we would like to see the search engine for foundry missions work. This isn't a new idea. We just don't have it, yet. The comments made in here about us needing a way to search for a simple "Rumble" mission or a Story mission are all on the mark. Even if we didn't have a problem with the grinder missions blocking the story mission's exposure (like how it went Pre7) we would still all benefit by it.

These missions, this play style, this isn't new. It's just changed how we see it. The advent of the IOR changes means that the simple nagus dailies (which always had thousands of plays) needed to be refined in a process that pumped out layers and layers of grinders clogging the list. The only people playing them rating them on how it worked for them. Rating system can be a "quality standard" but in general, it's not. It's just a "Like-o-meter". This again isn't new to us.

But since the same simple clicker missions are no longer the same one, they built a list of possible qualifiers that constantly rotate. Work through... It's a system in itself and it's forced to exist side by side with the story content based one we were already having troubles with.


TLR Version
Right now, the majority of players are focusing on the rewards, and they may not be wrong if that's how they are playing the game or expect the game to be played. It's a flawed system that has lead here, a new one will be required to ease this burden those players are facing. And it's the only thing that will change the players minds on it. Nothing anyone says. This isn't a problem with IOR as it is with just state of Building Fleets. If the Fleetmark rewards dropped tomorrow, the UGC community would just be blamed for it. Even if it hurt us more than them. Hell, these arguments started two weeks before foundry missions even published post S7.

A better search option at least separates the issues and gives the story content designed missions more opportunity to get played by people who want to play them.

Last edited by designationxr377; 01-24-2013 at 10:13 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 547
# 62
01-24-2013, 10:16 PM
Sorry for the double post, but, this idea is I think one I want to make separate enough of an idea.


If magically, tomorrow, the Fleet Mark reward missions like incursion or Blockade gave DOUBLE their current rewards. 34 for 15 minute mission, 68 for within the bonus time.

What do you think would happen to the players attitude for the IOR Repeatable Mission?


I may be so bold to say the root cause of this problem isn't anything to do with the Foundry. It's the Fleets Progression.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 63
01-24-2013, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by designationxr377 View Post
Sorry for the double post, but, this idea is I think one I want to make separate enough of an idea.


If magically, tomorrow, the Fleet Mark reward missions like incursion or Blockade gave DOUBLE their current rewards. 34 for 15 minute mission, 68 for within the bonus time.

What do you think would happen to the players attitude for the IOR Repeatable Mission?


I may be so bold to say the root cause of this problem isn't anything to do with the Foundry. It's the Fleets Progression.
This, in conjunction with removing the FM reward for the foundry, but leaving the dil, might help to alleviate the problem. There are more sources of dil so that is not quite so much a driver for grinding as a fleet marks source which would make more sense attached to fleet events anyway.

It would also mean a reduction in overall plays of course, but those would primarily be the hard core grinders anyhow.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,508
# 64
01-24-2013, 11:26 PM
People are still gonna grind for the EC

Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
The Defenders - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - [WIP] Commander Rihan
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 99
# 65
01-24-2013, 11:34 PM
Maybe it would help to reward the best foundry (the real missions!) with a onetime reward like lobi or purple loot?
they spent so much time and energy to filter mission for the daily, why not supporting the hardworking foundry authors and "decorate" this misions with goodies?

like the content missions!

the foundry missions still dont have the important status they should have.
and its on the devs to correct this!!
"Be excellent to each other and Party on Dudes!"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 66
01-25-2013, 12:07 AM
People wind grind period, its just a question of direction. In the end a better search UI is the best way for people who want specific content to find it.

Diplomacy, space combat, ground combat, mixed combat, time travel, mirror universe, story driven single episodes, chained story episodes, humor/satire, exploration, grinder, etc. Have LOTS of categories and allow each mission to get 1 to 3 tags set by the author.

If people could look for very specific things that they wanted to do it would greatly increase traffic and avoid lots of unnecessary bad rating by people who didn't get what they expected, and so on. This is the best way to mitigate the problems we are having. It also has the virtue of being nice and simple. In game design simple as possible on the mechanics end is almost always the way to go. Little alterations made to address symptoms and not the problem also have a way of causing un-intended consequences and can interact in unexpected ways.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 524
# 67
01-25-2013, 03:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
This, in conjunction with removing the FM reward for the foundry, but leaving the dil, might help to alleviate the problem. There are more sources of dil so that is not quite so much a driver for grinding as a fleet marks source which would make more sense attached to fleet events anyway.

It would also mean a reduction in overall plays of course, but those would primarily be the hard core grinders anyhow.
Dude, never ever suggest making Cryptic's grinds harder. The ways to get X resources should increase not decrease since the game has gone Zynga.

You're just being spiteful against a playstyle you don't like.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,752
# 68
01-25-2013, 07:17 AM
I think they just need to scale rewards to match average mission play time...
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 69
01-25-2013, 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
The "I'm in a small fleet" argument keeps coming up over and over.

Why do you need the fleet marks? Why do you need to have a t5 starbase. What part of this game can't you enjoy without grinding fleet marks?
Fleet ships. This game is all about the ships for me.

Quote:
If you really, really want the rewards, grow your fleet or leave and find a big one.
No.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 376
# 70
01-25-2013, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
I think they just need to scale rewards to match average mission play time...
Please, mark the word "play", not afk-time. I don't want to see more Boff-Grinders, that reward you for afk-time.
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...
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