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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 91
01-24-2013, 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
What I would love to see from those who claim beams are 'fine'.

Video of you killing the starbase in the Tau system. I can do it in all of my cannon ships but have yet to see a beam boat do it.
I did it before with my eng in a command bortasqu using 8 disruptor beams. You have to use multiple ways of mitigating power drain and giving more power to weapons, then having 8 beams actually gets pretty powerful. I use the eng captain abilities, 2 aux2bat with technician doffs, warp core engineer doff, eptw, and weapon batteries with battery doff.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 92
01-24-2013, 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
If you think escorts can "tank/evade on par with cruisers", you're sadly mistaking. First off, cruisers don't evade, they're slow lumbering boats. They get more hull points, more engineering stations, and when flown by an engineer, get innate heals and even greater healing bonuses. Cruisers can, and always will, out-heal an escort. They will ALWAYS be capable of absorbing more damage than an escort.

The only thing an escort can do is kill its target before its target kills the escort. We escort pilots have become quite good at that, which is why many players seem to be under the incredibly wrong assumption that escorts can tank.
Well I don't know about how some people fly cruisers but I am at 70% def bonus on my oddy, bortasqu, or regent, and I go up to 80 when I use the 2 pc aegis set sometimes. Escorts only get 10% more innate defense, and a cruiser when built right can easily reach enough speed to cap its defense bonus. I circle targets full speed while maintaing broadside and see them miss a lot. I even do it in a voquv.

Tanking in a cruiser isn't only about armor, resists and healing, keeping def bonus high causes many misses, and when they do hit they are less likely to crit.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 93
01-24-2013, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
I fly a Steamrunner with 2x EPtS, 2x Aux2Strut, 1x HE, 2x Tactical Team. MACO shield, skill points in starship armor, shields, blah, blah, over 70 shield power, red matter capacitor, etc. That's about as "tanky" as you can make an escort. It still doesn't match the tanking capabilities of even a "half-decent" cruiser.
you only need 1 aux2struc since it has a short cooldown you can just keep spamming it and you can switch the other one out for RSP1 and become tankier. Also make sure if you are running so much power to your shields you are still moving fast enough to max your def bonus.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 94
01-24-2013, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
If that were the case, the logical conclusion would be to build your ship to have only 1 weapon connected directly to your infinite power source, and that single weapon would be a beam whose constant throughput is only limited by the melting point of the systems involved.
Wouldn't this be a good explanation of what a cannon is? 'We can't run this continuously without destroying it.'


It reminds me a lot of continuous vs. pulse lasers, except that pulse lasers are (I believe) much less efficient than continuous beams, just WAY WAY WAY more powerful. And both devices point straight ahead.

It seems quite reasonable that beam arrays are much less damaging, and somewhat plausible that they are less efficient. The degree of inefficiency, particularly given the link between weapon power and damage itself, seems possibly excessive.

Mind you, I think this highlights some of the weirdness with the way weapon power works in the first place.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 95
01-24-2013, 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by assimilatedktar View Post
You do know that ships are supposed to equip both, energy weapons and torpedoes?
thats complete bs.

i dont recall seeing anywhere that a ship is "supposed" to equip energy and torps anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,193
# 96
01-24-2013, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
How is it that on 9 pages of comments, nobody has mentioned the most significant thing noticed in the OPs test? It isn't that BAs are inefficient, which we already knew, its most of the power-boosting stuff designed to mitigate that inefficiency doesn't work. To me thats a heck of a lot more significant than a rerun of the beams-vs-cannons flame-fest.
Because some of the escort pilots are afraid the devs will steal their cannons and so they respond with an attack. Others are just so used to every thread being about beams vs cannons they they see it even when the topic is something else entirely.

But it's actaully cool that you pointed it out.

and to get back on to the original topic: it was determined that nadeon inversion works wonders. So from a purely practical standpoint, it appears that power buffs are barely useful but power "anti-debuffs" are really what we need to maximize our beam boats.

So are there any other available -drain abilities/consoles etc? Nadeon is an engineer innate ability with a 2minute cooldown. Do any of the science console or deflector dish mods protect against energy drain in the same way? Insulators maybe?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 168
# 97
01-24-2013, 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
No it doesn't.

Over the course of 15 seconds, DHCs consume 60 power (12 per second for 1 second per firing * 5 firings) and generate what we will call 1X damage (at mark 1, 188 damage * 2 shots per volley * 5 firings = 1880). A beam array consumes 120 power (10 per second for 4 seconds per firing * 3 firings) and does 0.63X damage (at mark 1, 100 damage * 4 shots per volley * 3 firings = 1200).

In other words, a beam array consumes twice as much power to generate around 2/3 as much damage.
Add in the fact that a having beam arrays on both the front and the back of the ship means that you have practically 360 degree's of firing radius with consistent damage. Where as a Dual Heavy Cannon boat only has an effective 46 degree firing radius where it can effectively hit any targets and be of any real use. This means that the Cruiser with the Beam Arrays can survive LONGER and thus do more DPS than the Escort flying with the Dual Heavy Cannons. Basically just because a weapon does more DPS in a narrow range of fire, does not make that weapon better when comparing it to a weapon that has a wider firing arc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
By that logic, the beam should deal as much, if not greater, amounts of damage than cannons.

Conservation of energy, natch.
I disagree, once the cannon volleys are launched out of the ship they are self contained balls of energy (just like Torpedo's). Thus they require less energy to maintain than the Beam Arrays which require a constant flow of energy from the ship to maintain the beam.

It's kind of like what takes more energy to fire... a Star Wars Repeating Blaster Rifle, or a Star Trek Phaser... easily the Phaser uses more energy.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 98
01-24-2013, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinruneblade View Post
So are there any other available -drain abilities/consoles etc? Nadeon is an engineer innate ability with a 2minute cooldown. Do any of the science console or deflector dish mods protect against energy drain in the same way? Insulators maybe?
It's worth pointing out that ALL those tests would have been made with "omega weapon amplifier" kicking in occasionally. I forgot about that one. If you don't use two pieces of the omega set, your power mitigation attempts are even more irrelevant.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,250
# 99
01-24-2013, 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helixsunbringer View Post


I disagree, once the cannon volleys are launched out of the ship they are self contained balls of energy (just like Torpedo's). Thus they require less energy to maintain than the Beam Arrays which require a constant flow of energy from the ship to maintain the beam.

It's kind of like what takes more energy to fire... a Star Wars Repeating Blaster Rifle, or a Star Trek Phaser... easily the Phaser uses more energy.
You can only get as much energy out of a thing as you put into it; if a beam requires more power, then it should be doing more damage.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 100
01-24-2013, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepxtreme View Post
who uses 8 beams anyway except for beginners
Experienced engineers can do it with no problem, my eng is only specced for energy weapons so there isn't anything else I can use the weapon slots for, and have enough ways to power it and mitigate its drain so why not.
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