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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 71
# 131
02-21-2013, 06:33 AM
First off the OP test is at max range, please tell me you understand range effects damage.

Beam dps is all about maximum time on target. Meaning you should be on target more than a 45 degree arc DHC ship. And beams get less of a distance penalty than cannons. Everybody seems to compare a cannon ship that is stationary at <2km range from its target the entire time. So yes you need to fly your broadside ship appropriately to give you optimum distance and for transitioning targets.

There are so many ways to deal with drain, if you havent figured out set weapons to 100, then stack EPtW, 2-piece borg, Maco Shield (or equivalent), plasmonic leech, Aux2Bat (specific builds). Run 5 or 6 beams depending if you are KDF or not, Cutting beam, Rom Beam, and the 180 torp if Fed. Fly a ship with enough Tac slots 4+, unless you are using Aux2Bat build. You dont need a million healing skills, you need less than a handful. Make sure you have APB, preferably back to back.

You should be able to parse in STFs nearly the same dps as most escorts and much more than escorts if in a beam carrier. Escorts will still have more burst, but your sustained dps should be close. And hopefully you are nice enough to have threat control and actually do damage and be a viable tank.

None of this matters because later today I will get into an STF where all 4 other player will never even break 2.5k dps, regardless if they are in an escort or cruiser.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,002
# 132
02-21-2013, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bi9t View Post
First off the OP test is at max range, please tell me you understand range effects damage.

Beam dps is all about maximum time on target. Meaning you should be on target more than a 45 degree arc DHC ship.[...]
What makes you think that? DHC ships park in front of a PVE target and unload their cannons, 100% time on target, just as any beam broadside ship. DHC ships just do more damage.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 994
# 133
02-21-2013, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bi9t View Post
First off the OP test is at max range, please tell me you understand range effects damage.

Beam dps is all about maximum time on target. Meaning you should be on target more than a 45 degree arc DHC ship. And beams get less of a distance penalty than cannons. Everybody seems to compare a cannon ship that is stationary at <2km range from its target the entire time. So yes you need to fly your broadside ship appropriately to give you optimum distance and for transitioning targets.

There are so many ways to deal with drain, if you havent figured out set weapons to 100, then stack EPtW, 2-piece borg, Maco Shield (or equivalent), plasmonic leech, Aux2Bat (specific builds). Run 5 or 6 beams depending if you are KDF or not, Cutting beam, Rom Beam, and the 180 torp if Fed. Fly a ship with enough Tac slots 4+, unless you are using Aux2Bat build. You dont need a million healing skills, you need less than a handful. Make sure you have APB, preferably back to back.

You should be able to parse in STFs nearly the same dps as most escorts and much more than escorts if in a beam carrier. Escorts will still have more burst, but your sustained dps should be close. And hopefully you are nice enough to have threat control and actually do damage and be a viable tank.

None of this matters because later today I will get into an STF where all 4 other player will never even break 2.5k dps, regardless if they are in an escort or cruiser.
The amount of damage the OP was doing is not the point; the point is that damage gain from boosting weapon power was not working as advertised. Range is irrelevant.

You will also note the chained EPtW and Plasmonic Leech were both included in the test.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,045
# 134
02-21-2013, 06:55 AM
ive stoped useing cruisers because a heavy escort can tank nearly as good + better turn rate and a hell of a lot more dmg i still use duel beam and one beam arry at the back, but other wise i dont see thae point in a beam ship in this game its all about DPS at the moment a team of 5 people all with ships with cannons can do ISE with 7 mins left on the clock no probs. today my fleet did CSE 4 of us and one pug 5 mins left on the clock no even died
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 135
02-21-2013, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
The amount of damage the OP was doing is not the point; the point is that damage gain from boosting weapon power was not working as advertised. Range is irrelevant.
On the contrary, his point was that existing drain mechanics, specifically the power inefficient nature of non-DHC weapons, are not fully counterable by existing anti-drain capabilities.

Power boosting and weapon drain countering abilities work, they're just not strong enough to deal with 7 beams firing concurrently

Last edited by stirling191; 02-21-2013 at 06:59 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 71
# 136
02-21-2013, 06:57 AM
Apparently reading comprehension and math is too hard for people in this thread.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 994
# 137
02-21-2013, 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
On the contrary, his point was that existing drain mechanics, specifically the power inefficient nature of non-DHC weapons, are not fully counterable by existing anti-drain capabilities.

Power boosting and weapon drain countering abilities work, they're just not strong enough to deal with 7 beams firing concurrently
Well not quite, because Nadion Inversion, which was also included in the test, would count as an existing method. Why have a single ability that lets you do it once in a blue moon, when you still have to try to make those weapons work the rest of the time through inadequate means.

You make it sound like we aren't supposed to be able to run 7 beams at once; but then why do we have the means, and why do we have that one ability that lets it work on occasion? There is a case to be made that it is not working as intended.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 138
02-21-2013, 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
Well not quite, because Nadion Inversion, which was also included in the test, would count as an existing method. Why have a single ability that lets you do it once in a blue moon, when you still have to try to make those weapons work the rest of the time through inadequate means.
Please elaborate on how an existing anti drain ability not being powerful enough to counter existing weapon drain mechanics on a macro scale clashes with the statement that existing anti drain mechanics are not currently strong enough to counter existing weapon drains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
You make it sound like we aren't supposed to be able to run 7 beams at once; but then why do we have the means, and why do we have that one ability that lets it work on occasion? There is a case to be made that it is not working as intended.
You'll notice I made zero quality judgements about whether you should or should not be forced into a specific loadout.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 139
02-21-2013, 07:19 AM
You are totally testing it wrong.

http://www.zeta-aquilae.net/Test/Beams.png

There you go. Just keep adding weapon power and see your DPS on a full beam broadside boat increase up to 25% and more!!!

Beam Arrays / Power level have always been broken for a stupid reason, bad programming, etc.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,183
# 140
02-21-2013, 07:27 AM
A possible tweak would be to make beam array power scale down as more beams are added, up to a fixed amount (like 6). Then a cruiser could load up on them and wont suffer such a severe power draw.
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