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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,545
# 41
01-24-2013, 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
[...]
Beams serve a very specific purpose in the game. They are meant to provide a medium damage, wide firing angle weapon for slower moving ships to use against fast moving targets.
No disagreement here. But do they do that? What exactly is medium damage?

Shouldn't medium damage be sufficient to destroy less-than-medium-tanky ships, like escorts?

Quote:
Those same slow moving ships are meant to absorb large amounts of incoming fire. Combine beam fire at will, threat control, and a small battery of heals, and you get a very effective tank that can keep enemies focused on yourself rather than your teammates. This makes beams very effective on the ship they were meant for.
[...]
Do I understand you correctly that you say "beams are not there for achieving anything but threat generation which, supported by threat control skill, will make them usable only for tanks" If so, let me remind you that tanks are not needed in this game. So in other words, you think beams are pointless?

You seem to say that "only fast-turning ships should do significant damage, and there is only one intended way to do it, which is by using fore weapons, namely DHC's".

If that was the case, what would, in your opinion, be the intended function of the Jem'hadar Dreadnought? And why did they, in your opinion, give 5 tac consoles to the tactical Bortasqu, when it is not intended to do any significant damage, but merely get the attention of the NPC's?

And what exactly do you have against more than one viable way to do damage? Please explain.
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Last edited by sophlogimo; 01-24-2013 at 06:44 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 42
01-24-2013, 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post

Put them on an Escort. Put them on the same Escort that you put the DHCs/Turrets on.

snip
I have used BAs on an escort build. It did not put out enough DPS for my taste at all in the end. Even running EPTW1 constantly with APB3, APB2, FaW 3, and BO 2 with an eng captain to mitigate the drain occasionally.

Ironically said toon also had points in threat control and tanked the 3 ESTF elites without even bothering with EPTS. Sadly retired that ship before hive was released.

Beam users are a waste of my, and everyone elses time. I don't personally care if they are used, I even use them on one of my toons ATM, but they are still a waste of time. Granted I also don't really care when people AFK so yeah.

Actually on that note, 2 beam cruisers = 1 AFKer in a matter of speaking. Typically anyway.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,134
# 43
01-24-2013, 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
I have used BAs on an escort build. It did not put out enough DPS for my taste at all in the end. Even running EPTW1 constantly with APB3, APB2, FaW 3, and BO 2 with an eng captain to mitigate the drain occasionally.

Ironically said toon also had points in threat control and tanked the 3 ESTF elites without even bothering with EPTS. Sadly retired that ship before hive was released.

Beam users are a waste of my, and everyone elses time. I don't personally care if they are used, I even use them on one of my toons ATM, but they are still a waste of time. Granted I also don't really care when people AFK so yeah.

Actually on that note, 2 beam cruisers = 1 AFKer in a matter of speaking. Typically anyway.
Your opinion is dualy noted, as it is just an opinion. I use beam arrays on every ship, even escorts have at least 1 dual forward and 1-2 rear and i destroy enemies quite easily in elite stf's. So saying someone with beam arrays is about useless or a waste of time is being very biased.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,172
# 44
01-24-2013, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
I have flown nearly every ship in the game. Escorts tank just fine it is only healing that they can at times run out of.

Infact thanks to their higher avoidance capabilities combined with the ability to have the same exact amount of mitigation escorts make more efficient and superior tanks. The only reason they are not used as main tanks is simply that their is no need for a tank in this game. That and most people being bad at math helps too.



No, you will be more valuable by getting in a ship that does real DPS and save me a minute of time when I'm in your group.

Let me say this one last time. I do not need anyone to tank for me, or to heal for me in ESTFs.
Escort tank is fine as a cruiser? Yeah a cruiser with a bad setup and a bad pilot. But then again, cruiser can do easily more damage than an escort. An escort flown by a bad pilot with a bad layout.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,640
# 45
01-24-2013, 07:21 AM
Cannons do greater damage at less power requirement than beams , I think this is tested to be true by a great many people.Anyone who puts Beams on there escort will see the difference in seconds.

They should be equal........ Period
Many escorts can turn so quickly the firing arc limitation is not a limitation

Cannons get Double chances for Procs with Cannon rapid fire
Beams should also have a rapid fire mode to get equal chances to proc
( Beam rapid fire ) the same as cannons

Raise the power drain on cannons to equal Beams is the most logical answer

Balencing/Fixes should work on lowering DPS in the game if possible because players are so overpowered verses the NPCs as it is

Beams and torpedos in turrets At the current DPS of the cannons in turrets
Why are cannons so favored ? Cryptic !

Cannons = Less power requirement More damage plus turrets are all cannons benifiting from cannon special attacks,Cannons also fit in most if not all escorts The fastest most nimble ships in the game .
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Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 846
# 46
01-24-2013, 07:32 AM
How about we go for a simple method of fixing arrays?

Simply give them a cooldown like torpedos - cannonically (uggh), you see the enterprise, ect take a moment to draw the power to fire, so why not use that as an excuse to introduce a cooldown mechanic (faw, of course disables this briefly so all shots can be fired at once, with the normal drain)

that way beam array power doesn't drop as it does now, thus you do more damage on all beam arrays but at the same time is more sustained than the burst effect of the array fire as it is

In other words, beams become sustained, constant damage (as the next beam only fires when the first beam is discharged, ie the contents of the capacitor (in effect only one beam is fired at a time no matter how many are used), (thus for a 900dps beam you'd have 900-900-900-9.. ) as opposed to cannons burst potential where everything is fired quickly then has a lull before firing again (ie, 900900900-pause-900900..)

That way, dhcs and cannon retain overwhelming spike damage while beams become the defacto sustained DoT weapons that do more damage over time but can bring the hurt constantly, while also having potential via fire at will for CSV styled aoe and spike damage via beam overload

Just a thought, mind..
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,134
# 47
01-24-2013, 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by burstorion View Post
How about we go for a simple method of fixing arrays?

Simply give them a cooldown like torpedos - cannonically (uggh), you see the enterprise, ect take a moment to draw the power to fire, so why not use that as an excuse to introduce a cooldown mechanic (faw, of course disables this briefly so all shots can be fired at once, with the normal drain)

that way beam array power doesn't drop as it does now, thus you do more damage on all beam arrays but at the same time is more sustained than the burst effect of the array fire as it is

In other words, beams become sustained, constant damage (as the next beam only fires when the first beam is discharged, ie the contents of the capacitor (in effect only one beam is fired at a time no matter how many are used), (thus for a 900dps beam you'd have 900-900-900-9.. ) as opposed to cannons burst potential where everything is fired quickly then has a lull before firing again (ie, 900900900-pause-900900..)

That way, dhcs and cannon retain overwhelming spike damage while beams become the defacto sustained DoT weapons that do more damage over time but can bring the hurt constantly, while also having potential via fire at will for CSV styled aoe and spike damage via beam overload

Just a thought, mind..
The idea doesn't sound overly to bad, what i'm gathering is a suggested timed chain firing effect or ladder effect as where one beam fires than the next and so on. It would solve some of the wp drain, as it would cause the beam arrays to act more like only a single beam being fired at any given moment. While a sound idea it would cause lengthy delays between beam shots, which could inadvertently hurt overall dps numbers. And also you would still have to deal with distance issues being a factor for those dmg numbers. I find i do fine with the way they are now, not that a newer boff ability or some slight dmg increase wouldn't hurt. Maybe if they devised a new boff skill, like concentrate beam fire allowing for all beam arrays aimed at a single target to gain a fire rate boost+half wp drain for a accuracy penalty and a 1-2min cooldown. There can be all sorts of ideas, it's just if the devs would allow or incorporate such ideas is the problem.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 696
# 48
01-24-2013, 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Do I understand you correctly that you say "beams are not there for achieving anything but threat generation which, supported by threat control skill, will make them usable only for tanks" If so, let me remind you that tanks are not needed in this game. So in other words, you think beams are pointless?
Nope, you're putting words in my mouth, then using your own opinion to support your rather poor attempts to twist my words.

Beams are for ships that don't turn fast. That's cruisers. (Science vessels also mostly use beams, but they turn faster. Their point, however, is crowd control, not DPS. They should be using gravity well, tyken's rift, sensor scramble, etc. instead of trying to maximize DPS.)

Tanking is also quite useful in this game. When someone in a cruiser successfully pulls aggro and starts taking the incoming fire for me, I (as an escort pilot) am able to focus less on trying to survive, and more on actually killing things. Don't try to tell me tanks are not needed. Try running Cure Elite or Hive Elite in an escort of your choice and tell me tanks are unnecessary. You'll change your tune after you blow up a couple times while watching the nearest cruiser shrug off the same amount of damage seemingly effortlessly.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 17,914
# 49
01-24-2013, 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Beam users are a waste of my, and everyone elses time.
So you would be of the opinion that Beams and Cannons need a balance pass...
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 50
01-24-2013, 08:20 AM
Your test is flawed. You may very well have a poor build with not enough skill points to max out the effects of emercency power to x, you didn't use weapon batteries, which is a standard on all good cruiser builds and can compensate massive energy drains, and you didn't made a test with and without an EPS console. If you rotate EPS transfer, EPTw, batteries and nadion inversion, any cruiser can withstand 8 beam arrays AND fire at will II or III, even if i like having a torp too.

I see why your DPS is so low and why mine is fine with my eng/galor! Do you want me to show you in game how a good cruiser build works?
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