Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 141
01-25-2013, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjohnsonva View Post
Your argument is null and void and I see no reason in continuing it as it detracts from the purpose of this thread suffice it to say that nobody is asking you to carry 500 different sets around, we are talking of a handful of sets that can be stored on your spare ships and transferred onto your ship before you begin the mission. Surely you can find space to carry one or two more sets with you, if not I suggest you delete some of the junk that is no doubt filling your inventory space up if it's anything like mine lol
So because you disagree with a point, said point magically ceases to exist? Way to have an actual discussion there skippy. If you're so focused on keeping things so laser focused, why the multi-post rants in support of a proposal that is off topic?

Anyway, back to the matter at hand: micromanagement isn't fun. Swapping sets every five minutes isn't fun. Asking for a scenario to be created where micromanagement and gear swapping potentially takes precedence over playing content is both misguided, and frankly quite a bit foolish.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,030
# 142
01-25-2013, 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
So because you disagree with a point, said point magically ceases to exist? Way to have an actual discussion there skippy. If you're so focused on keeping things so laser focused, why the multi-post rants in support of a proposal that is off topic?

Anyway, back to the matter at hand: micromanagement isn't fun. Swapping sets every five minutes isn't fun. Asking for a scenario to be created where micromanagement and gear swapping potentially takes precedence over playing content is both misguided, and frankly quite a bit foolish.
While bad clutter is possible, streamlined statistical design is bad for an RPG. The clutter is what creates the immersion.

I can actually see an argument for allowing players to have alternate gear sets stored on a paperdoll they can swap out to for convenience. (Akin to shifting stances for druids and warriors in WoW.) And selling additional "swap out" doll slots.

However, gear should be situational. Otherwise, you're sacrificng an easy to satisfy RPG immersion point in order to pursue streamlining.

You might as well say that one ship class should be the best at everything, without nuance, because that's streamlined.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 143
01-25-2013, 12:28 PM
Another approach, that many games use, is that different sets are qualitatively different and bring something to the table in every situation.

It'd be nice if Jem'hadar equipment just... did different stuff. Still useful in STFs because of unique qualities, just like STF gear should still be useful in other arenas.


I have a dream of Borg zombie mode PvP (a la' Champions Online defend the cabin thing -- stop the Borg, people who die are assimilated into Borg and fight their former colleagues, etc.)
In that scenario, STF gear would be handy for the usual reasons.

Likewise, it'd be nice if Jem'hadar gear was useful for its particular qualities in STFs. I mean, the Jem'hadar space set with some teeth, draining and shutting down cubes is handy and different than, say, MACO.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
# 144
01-25-2013, 12:54 PM
I honestly had little interest in the ships. Perhaps a good trade for a Galor.what got my attention was the possibility to upgrade the Jem set. Ive liked the visuals and damage bonus for my escorts since I got it. I did rush and get it before I really looked over my stats. That's my bad alone for assuming it would be more than it is. However seeing all this negative feedback, I would implore the devs to take another look at it. It doesn't have to be as survivable as the trinity of other endgame sets we have. If I got nothing else but at least buffing the polaron damage for the set bonus I'd be fine. Let it be less "tanky" than the other sets but at least give it some niche viability for us that don't mind piloting glass cannons. I don't see any major balance issues that would come as a result of a dps "all in" set at the cost of survivability.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 145
01-25-2013, 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahinder View Post
Another approach, that many games use, is that different sets are qualitatively different and bring something to the table in every situation.

It'd be nice if Jem'hadar equipment just... did different stuff. Still useful in STFs because of unique qualities, just like STF gear should still be useful in other arenas.


I have a dream of Borg zombie mode PvP (a la' Champions Online defend the cabin thing -- stop the Borg, people who die are assimilated into Borg and fight their former colleagues, etc.)
In that scenario, STF gear would be handy for the usual reasons.

Likewise, it'd be nice if Jem'hadar gear was useful for its particular qualities in STFs. I mean, the Jem'hadar space set with some teeth, draining and shutting down cubes is handy and different than, say, MACO.
We have a winner.

You don't create variety just for the sake of variety. You create variety because each different thing bring something unique, valuable and useful to the table. All of the things should be viable, but in different ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
While bad clutter is possible, streamlined statistical design is bad for an RPG. The clutter is what creates the immersion.
I agree, but there are ways to merge the two extremes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I can actually see an argument for allowing players to have alternate gear sets stored on a paperdoll they can swap out to for convenience. (Akin to shifting stances for druids and warriors in WoW.) And selling additional "swap out" doll slots.
And there's one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
However, gear should be situational. Otherwise, you're sacrificng an easy to satisfy RPG immersion point in order to pursue streamlining.

You might as well say that one ship class should be the best at everything, without nuance, because that's streamlined.
Not to the point where you need to swap out to a different thing in every different situation. Going that route simply creates downtime for the sake of downtime.

Last edited by stirling191; 01-25-2013 at 12:59 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,669
# 146
01-25-2013, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjohnsonva View Post
This with respect is nonsense. Paulyman makes a very valid point which you are dismissing purely on the grounds of storage space? Get some extra boffs and put them there if necessary, you probably already have plenty of ships that can hold multiple sets of space gear.
This^

I have two kinds of Boffs, ground team and mules. Mules carry stuff like tribbles and backup weapons.... It's what I do with my [Borg] rifles...
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,030
# 147
01-25-2013, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
This^

I have two kinds of Boffs, ground team and mules. Mules carry stuff like tribbles and backup weapons.... It's what I do with my [Borg] rifles...
Yup. Mules also have space traits when possible.

Although I see that as a case where the trait system really needs almost a total overhaul, probably to a point where everyone has an equal number of ground and space traits. (Which is one reason why I support an 8 trait revamp. You could give every player and BO 8 traits that way -- 4 ground and 4 space -- without anyone losing existing traits or whatever would replace them in the new system.)
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 389
# 148
01-25-2013, 02:27 PM
I have to say, I was excited when I heard of the Space set upgrade. I eagerly dropped my 200 lobi on the table, and got.... very little. I didn't expect a "super-win" set, but I expected it to be at least on the same realm as the STF sets. All I really wanted was a decent shield cap increase. I haven't logged into the game yet today to see the mentioned "upgrade adjustment," but as of last night the XII Jem shield had 1000 less base capacity (as read by the tooltips in space) than the MACO XII. The shield cap has always been the set's weak point. I expected better, and am disappointed. Hopefully the adjustment will be worth the cost.

That said, I still love this game, and have been a daily player for over a year and a half.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 149
01-25-2013, 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Hello STO'ers!

Figured I'd pop in and shed some light on the subject... The feedback we've gotten on these new features has been helpful (despite the hostility of some of it), and we've taken some time to improve the features a bit.

Before I detail the improvements we'll be making, I'd like to remind players that we still intend for STF/Omega and Starbase/Embassy gear to be superior in scope to items that can be obtained from Missions and/or Lobi Store. It's possible that our original blog was worded in a way that could easily be misinterpreted to mean otherwise, but it was not our intent to imply that the Jem'Hadar Mk XII upgrades would end up having similar stats/bonuses/procs to Omega & Fleet gear. Our intent was, instead, simply to allow this gear to remain somewhat competitive in our more difficult end-game content. It's an upgrade, not a fundamental re-design.

With that in mind, here's a list of some of the changes to the Jem'Hadar Space Set that've been made internally, and should appear with next week's update:

- Lobi Price on Space Set upgrade reduced from 200 to 150, to match with other Set Upgrade item prices.
- Space Shield has received more Capacity and Regen rate.
- Space Deflector's Stealth-related bonuses have been doubled.
- Space Engine's Weapon Power bonus has been doubled (just the static buff, not the Efficient part)
- Dominion Synergy (2pc Bonus) has had its bonuses increased by 50%.
- Antiproton Sweep will now disable Cloaks for longer (12sec, vs 10sec), drain more Shields per use (approx 20% increase), and recharges faster (90sec vs 120sec).
This is all fine and good, but will we be receiving a 50 lobi refund?
Sollaf: Join date Sep 2009, Lifer. Supporter of Cryptic.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 389
# 150
01-25-2013, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollaf View Post
This is all fine and good, but will we be receiving a 50 lobi refund?
Don't hold your breath. You might turn Andorian blue.
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