Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,728
# 181
03-10-2013, 11:32 PM
given QA's track record, they arent messing around here. im sure they had to change basically ever ability that modifies weapons in some way with a better line of code that works harmoniously with everything. its very likely that at the moment almost every tac skill may be bugged if they released the fix now. well good luck QA guys, i'll be impressed if this is a flawless release
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,763
# 182
03-11-2013, 09:39 AM
The bug we're fixing does not affect all powers, but we're still taking inventory on exactly how many it does affect.

In short, the type of power affected is of a type we call, internally, "Applied Powers." This refers to a situation where one entity tells another entity to do something, instead of doing it themself. This is usually done to circumvent targeting limitations: Every power can only have a single primary target type, and a single affected target type. If we need one step of an ability to target one thing, then the next to target something else, part of that power needs to be Applied.

In the case of Fire at Will, the Applied portion is in target selection. When you activate a Fire at Will attack, it is a self-targeting Cone-based AOE that can potentially hit everything within your weapon's firing arc. But in order to correctly limit its targets, and to play the point-to-point beam FX, it first forces everything within that firing arc to do something: Find me up to two valid targets. The chosen targets are forced to communicate back to the FAW-user that they are the ones that will be shot, which allows the shots to then fire.

Unfortunately, it was recently discovered that Applied Powers do not pass off enhancements that aren't inherent to the character. So, skill-based bonuses were passed through the combat evaluation process just fine, but anything that lived on a piece of equipment was not (unless it was applied to the character, instead of the item). This almost exclusively translates to Weapon Enhancements, but a few other abilities (Doff enhancements, e.g.) may have been affected in this manner as well.

The Applied functionality is also why we sometimes see strange power behavior when certain powers combine with one another, such as DEM + Point Defense System. I can't recall if this bug was fixed, but it used to be that firing these two in conjunction would actually deal the DEM damage to yourself. The cause of this was a disagreement between two Applied powers, both overriding different targeting parameters within the overall combat evaluation. It can get very complicated.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Staff Systems Designer
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,397
# 183
03-11-2013, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The bug we're fixing does not affect all powers, but we're still taking inventory on exactly how many it does affect.

In short, the type of power affected is of a type we call, internally, "Applied Powers." This refers to a situation where one entity tells another entity to do something, instead of doing it themself. This is usually done to circumvent targeting limitations: Every power can only have a single primary target type, and a single affected target type. If we need one step of an ability to target one thing, then the next to target something else, part of that power needs to be Applied.

In the case of Fire at Will, the Applied portion is in target selection. When you activate a Fire at Will attack, it is a self-targeting Cone-based AOE that can potentially hit everything within your weapon's firing arc. But in order to correctly limit its targets, and to play the point-to-point beam FX, it first forces everything within that firing arc to do something: Find me up to two valid targets. The chosen targets are forced to communicate back to the FAW-user that they are the ones that will be shot, which allows the shots to then fire.

Unfortunately, it was recently discovered that Applied Powers do not pass off enhancements that aren't inherent to the character. So, skill-based bonuses were passed through the combat evaluation process just fine, but anything that lived on a piece of equipment was not (unless it was applied to the character, instead of the item). This almost exclusively translates to Weapon Enhancements, but a few other abilities (Doff enhancements, e.g.) may have been affected in this manner as well.

The Applied functionality is also why we sometimes see strange power behavior when certain powers combine with one another, such as DEM + Point Defense System. I can't recall if this bug was fixed, but it used to be that firing these two in conjunction would actually deal the DEM damage to yourself. The cause of this was a disagreement between two Applied powers, both overriding different targeting parameters within the overall combat evaluation. It can get very complicated.
Thanks for the info - ETA on patch?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 184
03-11-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The Applied functionality is also why we sometimes see strange power behavior when certain powers combine with one another, such as DEM + Point Defense System. I can't recall if this bug was fixed, but it used to be that firing these two in conjunction would actually deal the DEM damage to yourself. The cause of this was a disagreement between two Applied powers, both overriding different targeting parameters within the overall combat evaluation. It can get very complicated.
I remember this one, I bug reported it a year ago, but didn't check it again after.

Btw. does that accuracy bug affect the Phaser Lance or beam Overload as well ? because those things surely do miss a lot.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,763
# 185
03-11-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Thanks for the info - ETA on patch?
My original estimate stands. And is still an estimate. I don't control the flow of these things once they leave my desk.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Staff Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Follow the STO_DevTracker on Twitter!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,397
# 186
03-11-2013, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
My original estimate stands. And is still an estimate. I don't control the flow of these things once they leave my desk.
kk, thanks for the swift response.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 187
03-11-2013, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The bug we're fixing does not affect all powers, but we're still taking inventory on exactly how many it does affect.

In short, the type of power affected is of a type we call, internally, "Applied Powers." This refers to a situation where one entity tells another entity to do something, instead of doing it themself. This is usually done to circumvent targeting limitations: Every power can only have a single primary target type, and a single affected target type. If we need one step of an ability to target one thing, then the next to target something else, part of that power needs to be Applied.

In the case of Fire at Will, the Applied portion is in target selection. When you activate a Fire at Will attack, it is a self-targeting Cone-based AOE that can potentially hit everything within your weapon's firing arc. But in order to correctly limit its targets, and to play the point-to-point beam FX, it first forces everything within that firing arc to do something: Find me up to two valid targets. The chosen targets are forced to communicate back to the FAW-user that they are the ones that will be shot, which allows the shots to then fire.

Unfortunately, it was recently discovered that Applied Powers do not pass off enhancements that aren't inherent to the character. So, skill-based bonuses were passed through the combat evaluation process just fine, but anything that lived on a piece of equipment was not (unless it was applied to the character, instead of the item). This almost exclusively translates to Weapon Enhancements, but a few other abilities (Doff enhancements, e.g.) may have been affected in this manner as well.

The Applied functionality is also why we sometimes see strange power behavior when certain powers combine with one another, such as DEM + Point Defense System. I can't recall if this bug was fixed, but it used to be that firing these two in conjunction would actually deal the DEM damage to yourself. The cause of this was a disagreement between two Applied powers, both overriding different targeting parameters within the overall combat evaluation. It can get very complicated.

Great info, this is the kind of info the PvP forums love.

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,728
# 188
03-11-2013, 10:49 AM
fascinating stuff! thanks for digging till you found an answer. especially if you fixed this on partly on your private time. i bet they had you pretty busy other wise
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 189
03-11-2013, 02:40 PM
It's like reading the book of genesis of pvp

Duuuuuuuuude, this is so deep
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 109
# 190
03-25-2013, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The fix is working its way thru QA. Due to the number of powers that were potentially affected (this was a LOT bigger than just Fire At Will) there's a high probability that further attention will need to be given before it can arrive on Tribble.

I'd estimate another 2 weeks or so, but that's just a shot in the dark.
Are we are getting into the "dark shot zone" when the fix might start to show up on Tribble or be discussed further?
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