Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,483
# 81
01-25-2013, 03:49 PM
Iirc, some people felt it wasn't just ACC, but all mods being ignored. If this is the case it should be pretty easy to demonstrate using CritD mods.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,284
# 82
01-25-2013, 04:35 PM
Progress!

With the assistance of one of our Programmers, we think we've uncovered the issue at hand.

Suffice it to say, Enhancements from weapons (like [Acc] mods, but also includes [Dmg], [CrtD], etc, as well as Procs) aren't being properly inherited by all powers in all circumstances. I'm hesitant to post more details than that until we have a working fix, which is unlikely to happen internally until next week at the earliest.

So, stay tuned! I'll let you all know what's going on, once we have made more progress internally.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 59
# 83
01-25-2013, 04:38 PM
In regards to the test case that borticus reported at the start of this thread, we managed to find a flaw in how it was setup, and once we corrected that we saw that weapon Enhancements were not interacting with Fire At Will, as many of you have been reporting to us. We're working on getting this fixed.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 271
# 84
01-25-2013, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Progress!
So, stay tuned! I'll let you all know what's going on, once we have made more progress internally.
This is awesome news! Totally looking forward to what happened and what the fix will be! Thanks for getting into this one! You and flyingtarg are almost resurrecting the beam using cruiser pilot in me.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,323
# 85
01-25-2013, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Progress!

With the assistance of one of our Programmers, we think we've uncovered the issue at hand.

Suffice it to say, Enhancements from weapons (like [Acc] mods, but also includes [Dmg], [CrtD], etc, as well as Procs) aren't being properly inherited by all powers in all circumstances. I'm hesitant to post more details than that until we have a working fix, which is unlikely to happen internally until next week at the earliest.

So, stay tuned! I'll let you all know what's going on, once we have made more progress internally.
This reads like people are going to die faster after it's fixed...possibly 2-3+ weeks out though.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
I.S.S. Arcadia, Stargazer-class Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,853
# 86
01-25-2013, 04:45 PM
oh wow, faw isnt unfixable maybe! but i thought that since the beams in a programing sense originate from the target, it couldnt be effected by your stats.

with weapon mods not being utilized right, does that mean innate accuracy, crit chance, and severity also don't always interact right?

what about cannon accuracy, does this explain that too?
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,284
# 87
01-25-2013, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
This reads like people are going to die faster after it's fixed...possibly 2-3+ weeks out though.
Now that the power will be Working As Intended (fingers crossed), we can turn our attention to tuning it, if necessary. The latter can't happen without the former.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 59
# 88
01-25-2013, 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
oh wow, faw isnt unfixable maybe! but i thought that since the beams in a programing sense originate from the target, it couldnt be effected by your stats.

with weapon mods not being utilized right, does that mean innate accuracy, crit chance, and severity also don't always interact right?

what about cannon accuracy, does this explain that too?
The bug we uncovered is mostly specific to Fire At Will and a few other powers. Think of it more like something in the way Fire At Will works prevented it from receiving weapon enhancements, rather than there being anything wrong with the enhancements themselves.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 259
# 89
01-25-2013, 04:52 PM
Okay I think there is a problem with the parser I am using concerning shield damage and accuracy but I checked with 1 shot against hull (no shields on the victim) and hull damage accuracy for faw works perfectly, with the 5 shots (which acutally do get logged by the parser and startrekonline so I must of made a mistake ealier).

Anyway, I did a test with faw 200 shots and non faw 300 shots and faw had 14% less accuracy but this test might be subject to engines offline phaser proc.

So I did another test in which the enemy ship was stationary (to prevent proc) with 750-1500 hits, this won't tell accuracy but it will show crit damage which is 8% on normal beams and 6% on both faw which shows something is wrong (no crit enhancing consoles were equiped).
http://i.imgur.com/a9qsZZV.png

Both tests were on hull and no shields.

Edit: Nice the Problem is being fixed

Starfleet M.A.C.O. KDF Honour Guard

Last edited by afree100; 01-25-2013 at 04:56 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 90 you got mATHED!
01-25-2013, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
So, here is the final data. 4h 45min of beams, turrets and FAW. (log file as *.act export)


Defense: 67.7% (includes 10% elusive)
Bonus Accuracy: 25.0% (includes 10% accurate)


Without FAW:

Plain beam array: 89.35%
Acc2 beam array: 93.11%

(~10.5k swings per value)


With FAW:

Plain beam array FAW2: 69.72%
Acc2 beam array FAW2: 69.74%

Plain beam array FAW3: 69.22%
Acc2 beam array FAW3: 69.96%

(~6.8k swings per value)


Turrets for comparison:

Plain turret: 71.05% (expected value from formula: 70.07%)
Acc2 turret: 83.14% (expected value from formula: 81.5%)

(~36.5k swings per value)


Some validity checks:

FAW had an uptime of almost 50%. Swings with FAW: 4*6.8k = 27.2k, swings without FAW: 21k. 27.2 / 5 * 4 (to account for the 5th shot) = 21.76k, so this looks good.

The Acc2 arrays were two plasma arrays. Cycles without FAW = 11k / 4, cycles with FAW = 13.6k / 5, total = 5.47k. Proc chance 2.5%, so we expect ~137 procs. The log shows 2016 plasma fire swings, so 2016/16 = 126 procs. Very good.


There is something going on behind the scenes that make beams (according to my experience both arrays and beam banks) behave vastly differently from turrets and cannons. Whatever it is, maybe this is what is also affecting the FAW (and maybe related beam overload) accuracy issue.



Weird things:
The FAW swings were really evenly distributed and very close to 6.8k for all 4 FAW events. But the non-FAW beam swings differ significantly between the two plain arrays and the two acc2 arrays (order in the ship's front slots: acc2, plain, acc2, plain). The plain disruptor arrays had 11061 non-FAW swings in total, the acc2 plasma arrays only 9715 swings.

Also the accuracy values for the non-faw beams are significantly too high to be explained by my suspected beam formula (see http://hilbertguide.com/blog/#2012-08-18).

The test situation was a stationary Excelsior with 4 beams in the front and 4 turrets in the back shooting a Recluse that was circling in a very wide circle in front of it. (So the the two ships were closest to each other when the Recluse was passing by directly in front of the Excelsior.) The main difference to my previous tests that lead me to conjecture the beam formula is that the minimum (and probably also average) distance between target and attacker was smaller.


[All data analysed with the ACT plugin v1050 (for raw damage and accurate hitrates).]
Simply put I am not a "mathsy" guy. I can observe things I see. I can discuss the philosophy of one strategy over another and pick it apart. But not like you Hilbert or any of the other awesome captains in this thread behind the number crunching. I want to say thank you for taking the time. Not just to Borticus but to all of you because without you many of us who don't do the math wouldn't even begin to have a clue. Please stay diligent and we appreciate you all watching over us for the benefit of all who log in to play from day to day.

-Captain Tripwire-

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.
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