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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 21
01-25-2013, 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Uh. Care to explain? Lt Com Eng, Ens Sci, Lt Uni... how's that fragile?
Run a Lt. Eng and you're really a squishier HEC (I suppose you could run double RSP, you'll prob need it lol). A Lt. Sci and you're gonna struggle as well (though I like those one better, you could go TSS2/1, HE1, EPtS1/RSP1/EPtS3 or something). It's basically an escort without the Def bonus or the speed and turn to get out of arc.

I don't wanna pass judgment too fast because I'm sure someone might be able to bring out its strengths or come up with a build, but really I just can't see it working. Slow, massive ships can't do anything with a Com. Tac that justifies it being on a team. APO has poor scaling, you can't make cannons work and beam skills stop at Lt. Com, so.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 22
01-25-2013, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Uh. Care to explain? Lt Com Eng, Ens Sci, Lt Uni... how's that fragile?
for something completely unable to avoide damage, thats pitiful. an escort with those stations could make great use out of them to keep itself alive, because its also dealing a large amount of damage in return, has a high innate defense score, and can fly and turn very quickly, allowing it to avoid incoming fire. this thing cant do anything about an escort camping on its tail and shooting it till it runs out of defensive options and heals

all ships can tank just as well as each other, because they all are using the same abilities. the difference is how long they can keep up their survival. this carrier is going to run out of 'invulnerability' much quicker then anything else in its weight class.

escorts do fine with the lower number of heals because they have high defense and damage avoidance ability. the jem carrier has nether large numbers of tanking abilitys to cycle and fall back on, nor any damage avoidance ability. its screwed.

it has a chance not to suck if that LT tac was ether eng or sci, but since its tac its a non starter. a pve toy. the only time it can use all that tac is when its using DHCs on imoble STF targets
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 01-25-2013 at 01:04 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,345
# 23
01-25-2013, 01:50 PM
I don't see much of a difference to a tactical cruiser in survivability, honestly.

You run EPTS1, RSP1, EPTS3, on the Lt Com and something like EptA, Aux2Struct1 on the Universal Lieutenant. That is almost as survivable as an assault cruiser with, for example, EWP3 and EWP1, and only because of the missing eng console.

The real issue I see with the dread is not on the defensive side, I think it is (and have seen it in C&H to be) acceptably durable. I rather see this ship suffering from STO's favoring of narrow-arc forward cannons so much... it is clearly intended to be a beam ship, but the mechanics just don't support that with a slow tactical ship. Yet?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,305
# 24
01-25-2013, 02:04 PM
Afraid I am going to have to side with dontdrunkimshoot on this point.

I ran the ship with EptS I, RSP I, EptS III and used the remaining for HE I, and TSS.

It's ability to withstand the opening salvo is quickly depleted, even against a single escort.

By the time that the escort has recovered preparing the secondary attack, that's when things start to come apart for this ships defenses. Its the gap between the CD of EptS III with little to fall back on, and hardly any maneuverability to speak of.

By this stage of the attack you are fighting rear-guard action only, with possibly only 3 weapons trained-on-target. Throughout all engagements, I felt like I was continually fighting only defensively.

As soon as another ship appeared, I knew I was doomed every single time.

At no point did the pets I was launching seem to deter the attack, or even frustrate the attacker enough to break off his attack. I was the only one breaking a sweat, amid the thunderous "LOL" in zone chat.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 01-25-2013 at 02:30 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 25
01-25-2013, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Afraid I am going to have to side with dontdrunkimshoot on this point.

I ran the ship with EptS I, RSP I, EptS III and used the remaining for HE I, and TSS.

It's ability to withstand the opening salvo is quickly depleted, even against a single escort.

By the time that the escort has recovered preparing the secondary attack, that's when things start to come apart for this ships defenses. Its the gap between the CD of EptS III with little to fall back on, and hardly any maneuverability to speak of.

By this stage of the attack you are fighting rear-guard action only, with possibly only 3 weapons trained-on-target. Throughout all engagements, I felt like I was continually fighting only defensively.

As soon as another ship appeared, I knew I was doomed every single time.
Sounds strangely familiar....eh, the Galaxy-X !
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 26
01-25-2013, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
I don't see much of a difference to a tactical cruiser in survivability, honestly.

You run EPTS1, RSP1, EPTS3, on the Lt Com and something like EptA, Aux2Struct1 on the Universal Lieutenant. That is almost as survivable as an assault cruiser with, for example, EWP3 and EWP1, and only because of the missing eng console.

The real issue I see with the dread is not on the defensive side, I think it is (and have seen it in C&H to be) acceptably durable. I rather see this ship suffering from STO's favoring of narrow-arc forward cannons so much... it is clearly intended to be a beam ship, but the mechanics just don't support that with a slow tactical ship. Yet?
EPtA leaves a gap in your cycle a mile wide, one that TSS1 alone won't patch up.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 27
01-25-2013, 02:41 PM
I think the Lt Tac hurts the Dread for PvP w/o significant remote support, but still I think this thing would be a PvE DPS monster and I'm fine w/that tbh.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,179
# 28
01-25-2013, 02:44 PM
you should proboly use the universal LT for sci, aside from the tac powers, i would run this on one

EPtA1, RSP1, EPtS3
TSS1, HE2
HE1

with 2 or 3 purple damage control doffs. with only 3 eng powers, you have no choice really, and you need your aux heals as strong as possible.

i could keep a much quicker excelsior or vorcha alive alright with that, but i would also have AtB with tech doffs putting all that at global. a more support heavy cruiser would also run AtS3 and have ether ET2 or ET3, and TSS2 instead of HE2 with all that hull heal coverage too. and itcould run up to 2 ES, or have an EWP on there. so not only does it lack room for half the defensive options, its got next to no support capability. if anyone shoots at it it wont have anything to spare.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,671
# 29
01-25-2013, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
That's another of STO paradox. The bigger and more powerful the ship should be (judging by TV series), the more crap it usually is
Hence why the JHAS is the most powerful escort in the game despite four of them being required to take down one Galaxy (with a suicide attack!) in the show...
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,601
# 30
01-25-2013, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
i Don't See Much Of A Difference To A Tactical Cruiser In Survivability, Honestly.
Dread Bug w/ 6 turn:

X, X, X, X
X, X

X, X, X
X, X
X


...or...

X, X, X, X
X, X

X, X, X
X, X

X

vs. Assault Refit/Fleet Assault w/ 7 turn:

X, X, X
X

X, X, X, X
X, X

X, X

As for consoles, both the Fleet Assault and Dread Bug are 4/4/2 (while the Refit is 3/4/2).

Assault sports .15 Impulse.
Dread Bug .17 Impulse.
Assault sports 30 Inertia.
What does the Dread Bug have though?

Also, the Dread Bug's at 45k hull with a 1.15 shield modifier vs. 42.9k/1.1 for the Fleet and 39k/1 for the Refit...

For comparison - Heavy Bug:
37.5k Hull
1 Shield Modifier
12 Turn
.2 Impulse
? Inertia
4/4/2 consoles

X, X, X, X

X, X, X
X, X

X
X, X

So, you could basically do the same layout on the Dread and Heavy:

X, X, X, X
X, X

X, X, X
X, X

X

The Dread would have +7.5k hull and a +1.15 shield modifier (as well as +1 hangar, +5 aux power).
The Heavy would have +6 turn and +0.03 impulse (as well as +5 shield power).
Inertia?

Which would you say has better survivability?

Then again, folks may want the following Heavy layout for the Dread:

X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X

X, X
X
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