Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
As it stands, RCS accelerators are pretty much useless. Escorts for the most part don't really need the turn rate boost they get from them, and cruisers get such a small boost it's pretty much not there.

As it stands now, if you put one 40% (Mk XII) boost on a B'rel retrofit, your turn rate will go from 23 to 32.2.
Put the same console on an Exploration Cruiser Retrofit (the Galaxy-class), you go from a turn rate of 6, to a turn rate of 8.4.


I propose that instead of only giving a simple percentage boost to turn rate, RCS consoles give a percentage DECREASE to turn rate, and then a flat number increase.

For example, instead of getting +40% turn rate, you get "-x% then +y" turn rate. Assume x=40, y=10 for this bit, obviously the specific numbers would vary based on Mk and rarity.

B'rel before RCS, turn rate 23.
B'rel after penalty but before increase: 13.8
B'rel after increase: 23.8

Explo Retro before RCS, turn rate 6.
Explo Retro after penalty but before increase: 3.6
Explo Retro after increase: 13.6

As you can see from those numbers, the B'rel still gets a minor improvement to its turn rate, but the cruiser (which actually needs it) gets a much better boost. It still can't outurn an escort, but at least now it has a higher likelihood of getting its nose pointing at the target (which is not only essential for torpedoes and DBBs, but also for most science-based abilities ie Grav wells, Rifts, Sub nuc beams etc on low-turn rate ships with high Science BOff slots, or ships with Sci captains).
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 2
01-31-2013, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
As you can see from those numbers, the B'rel still gets a minor improvement to its turn rate, but the cruiser (which actually needs it) gets a much better boost.
How in the world is this fair? Why should a ship with a good turn rate get effectively no use out of that console but on a ship that's designed to turn slow, gets a massive one?

Based on your numbers, a Escort or BoP gets not even a whole degree improvement, but a cruiser doubles it's turn rate. In fact that would put the Cruiser nearly on par with a T5 Fed escort, and would be as good if not better then Sci ships.

There's already a answer for the issues you list for Science based abilities... They're called Science Ships, which start off with a turn rate in the 11-13 range.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 3
01-31-2013, 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
How in the world is this fair?
How in the world is the current situation fair? The ships with the worst turn rate, which most desperately need an improvement and are willing to pay a console slot to get it, receive almost no benefit.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,136
# 4
01-31-2013, 09:29 AM
Maybe it's your crappy impulse engine that's killing your turn rate. I'm quite happy with my star cruisers turn of 13+ with a single mk11 RCS console. I won't tell you which engine I'm using (do your own homework) but it was VERY expensive.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,463
# 5
01-31-2013, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
How in the world is the current situation fair? The ships with the worst turn rate, which most desperately need an improvement and are willing to pay a console slot to get it, receive almost no benefit.
edit: Changing my example to one that better fits the situation. The previous one only offered the view from the OP, I think this one will cover that and also the RCS.

Do you use Ambiplasma when you've only got Plasma Energy Weapons?

Would be along the lines of what the OP's stating. Zero benefit.

RCS is more along the lines of using Plasma Infusers when you're running Plasma Projectiles. You lose the +kinetic damage, but you're still getting the bonus to the DoT. Ambiplasmas only boost Projectile DoTs.

So yeah, an RCS might not provide the benefit it does to other ships and there may be better choices you could make for that Eng console. Likewise, that console you pick may not provide the benefit it does to other ships so it would not be the better choice for them.

I'm all for capping the ludicrous amount of turn an Escort can manage when buffed/geared...but doing so in a manner that is logical. Not breaking something that's not necessarily broken.

Last edited by virusdancer; 01-31-2013 at 09:48 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 6
01-31-2013, 09:37 AM
While I think cruisers could use more of a boost from RCS consoles, a brel shouldn't get such a small boost from using them like the op suggested. The amount he was sugesting was a litle extreme too. Why not instead of all these percentages, we allow the RCS to give a flat turn rate boost that is the same regardless of ship. For example a MK XI could give 1 to base turn rate, MK XII blue and MK XI purple could give 1.1, and MK XII purple could give 1.2.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,233
# 7
01-31-2013, 09:55 AM
I'd be fine with that change. If you are loading up on RCS accelerators on your BoP... just... why?

Personally I just got used to flying slow turners. Slow turners really are fine, they just require a pilot that knows how to handle them. I do agree that the current state of RCS generators is pretty gimp.

I'd be fine if they just gave a flat bonus, instead. Make the top end ones give +4 turn or somesuch. Just make them even.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,838
# 8
01-31-2013, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptvanor View Post
How in the world is this fair? Why should a ship with a good turn rate get effectively no use out of that console but on a ship that's designed to turn slow, gets a massive one?
Ships that have a good turn rate don't need this console. Ships that have a bad turn rate don't get much out of this console.

You're complaining about a proposal that has absolutely no negative affect for you other than a selfish sense of exclusivity.

That said though, I don't see why it shouldn't just be a flat bonus like with the +X power consoles. Then it would be "fair" and the fast turning ships can continue ignoring it.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 9
01-31-2013, 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
How in the world is the current situation fair?
The turn rate on a cruiser is well known, if you fly one you better be willing to accept the speed. The RCS console does exactly what it says, it increases the turn rate by a %. It's just when you have such a low value to start with, a 40% increase naturally doesn't mean much of an improvement.

Cruisers are supposed to turn slowly, I'm not sure what exactly is so hard to understand about that. You should never be able to get a Cruiser to turn like a Escort, no matter what you put in it.

The current situation is fair, because you know exactly what you're getting, and everything works the same for all ships.

Having a RCS have almost zero effect on a Escort, but double the effect on a Cruiser is broken.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 10
01-31-2013, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
You're complaining about a proposal that has absolutely no negative affect for you other than a selfish sense of exclusivity.
Wow you must be physic or something if you somehow can tell what my motivations are.

If fact I fly a Oddy, without any RCS so this change wouldn't effect me either way.

If it were a flat rate, like +3 degree/sec, it would be reduced to the point that a cruiser would still get little improvement, because of how the ships were designed to work in the first place. They're not going to change RCS in a way that lets a Cruiser turn like a Escort or even a Sci ship.

Lets be honest here. This request is nothing more then another "Lets make Cruisers better then every other ship" request.
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