Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 61
01-27-2013, 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
Not if the innate dps and therefor firing rate is so low. Thats like saying torpedos make DHC's useless.

And I do agree power drain needs looked at, but what im suggesting is that even if they fix it firing multiple heavy arrays in a broad side should still drain enough power to reduce their effectiveness, and without a proper build specificaly set up to mitigate that drain there shouldn't be too many people spamming 6 heavy beam arrays. Add to that fewer shots per cycle and the defence stat and I doubt you would see a multi heavy beam ship out dpsing an escort.

Part of my suggested weapon design and balance is that beam arrays should have less efficient power useage, it's the trade off for the huge arc and (at least for heavy arrays) high spike damage potential.




-------------

I'd also like to point out to every one that I was never arguing for or against the percieved inequities in ship classes, and that my OP was never about a specific or non specific ship type.

I was talking about weapons, and only weapons. And so far most of the feed back is just "Your idead is bad because it conflicts with what I think." and almost no one has posed a constructive argument refering to weapons specificaly.
Your idea of a Heavy beam with a narrow FA, say 60?, that could be mounted for and aft would seam fair to me. Especially if they give a turnbuff to cruisers.
Throw in a new BOff abilities for beams and its gravy in my opinion.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,016
# 62
01-27-2013, 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Yes it works if the NPCs are pathetic enough. In harder instances though a healer and a debuffer make your life really easier, such as hive onslaught, which is good. The easiness of the game gives the illusion that DPS is enough. When it's getting serious it's not. If you want to improve the overall quality of the game and "spread out" the fun, you could also ask for a major buff to the number of abilities endgame NPCs use, and also a signifcant buff to battleship NPCs, which are completely underpowered for some weird reason. You will get the same result but it will be funnier for everyone instead of making all classes similar, which makes no sense if you like playing alts. I think variety is something we shouldn't get rid of just because the AI and its lack of abilitiesand powers sucks hard.
The best healers and debuffers are Science Vessels.

The best true tanks are escorts and, science vessels.

If you make the content hard enough then cruisers will have absolutely no place left in the game other than PvP. And the sole reason they excel as healers in that environment is the fact that they can prevent huge volumes of spike damage on both an ally and themselves at the same time. Even with that said though there are several Science Vessels that can do that job better now thanks to boff layouts.

Cruisers are the Hybrid class. They have no place where they excel when pushing things to the max. Ironically enough in many MMOs hybrids have been weak in PvE while strong in PvP and nearly impossible to balance for both. Granted balancing anything for both is difficult, but hybrids especially so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
A buffed beam on an Escort would still be better than a buffed beam on a Cruiser...in the sense that any weapon is going to be better on an Escort than on a Cruiser. You've got the Tac BOFF stations. You've got the Tac console slots. You've even got the +Weapon Power thrown into that mix.

If it's a case of saying that Beams are mainly balanced for Sci and Cruisers, then much like only certain ships can run Dual Cannons - only certain ships should be able to run Beams, eh? But it's not like that.

The adjustments in balance take place on the ships - BOFF layout, Tac consoles, turn rate, shield modifier, defense bonus, hull, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Thus, the suggestion to look at the weapons on a single ship type as a starting point.

Take an Escort. Put DHCs/Turrets on it. Parse it. Put Beam Arrays on it. Parse it. Try it in different levels of difficulty where survival may be a factor. Compare them. Do they balance? Most people will just laugh at the idea...Beams on an Escort...lolrly? And tada, there's the issue. And still, better Beams on an Escort would still be better than better Beams on a Cruiser.
I have done this personally. I used every trick that existed in S6 to push it to the limit using an Engineer captain including running at 160 weapon power constantly, using Spiral Wave Disruptors, cycling APB, FaW, Overload (when Nadion was up), EPTW and using omega set. When I posted the build it was blasted for giving bad advice and that it was too much of a liability for groups. And even though it did put out 6k average DPS bursting for 10k consistently in CSE pugs in the end I did agree, it was a liability. Now that captain is in a steamrunner with DHCs still tanking everything like a boss. 6k DPS is not enough to carry.

Funny that everyone who claimed beams on an escort was a terrible liability to an STF group doesn't bother to comment on beams in general.

Last edited by bareel; 01-27-2013 at 06:43 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 384
# 63
01-27-2013, 06:57 PM
I keep saying the way to fix this is to introduce ranged combat and revamp space completely. Giving beam arrays on cruisers a range advantage (say 12km innately, 15km through doffs?) could go a long way toward evening things out. Same advantage for, say, certain science abilities on science ships (SNB, Jam Sensors, Gravity Well, and Tyken's Rift maybe?).

Then take off all the Auxiliary To and Emergency Power To BOFF skills and put them on every ship and nerf all the big insta-heals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jengoz View Post
Silly Rabbit, the Devs don't play the game. That's why they have no idea about the problems.

Last edited by sekritagent; 01-27-2013 at 06:59 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 64
01-27-2013, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sekritagent View Post
Then take off all the Auxiliary To and Emergency Power To BOFF skills and put them on every ship and nerf all the big insta-heals.
So you're going to gut space engineering powers and replace them with what? Is every ship going to get every copy of every EPtX at each version? Aux2X at Every level?

You think that's actually better?
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 65
01-27-2013, 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Your idea of a Heavy beam with a narrow FA, say 60?, that could be mounted for and aft would seam fair to me. Especially if they give a turnbuff to cruisers.
Throw in a new BOff abilities for beams and its gravy in my opinion.
I thought about a restricted firing arc, but a dhc gets a double damage boost over a dc without any restrictions just 2 more power drain.

Perhaps if they were on a shared cd so you could only fire one at a time.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 66
01-30-2013, 11:25 PM
New thread since this one is lost.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...61#post7761761
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,877
# 67
02-16-2013, 01:51 PM
Nice ideas in the OP, but the real solution will probably be found in an upcoming feature: Warp coils. Escorts are relatively small and can therefore wield only relatively small warp coils, science vessels take the middle road and cruisers can wield the most powerful warp coils.

The bonus from the warp coils will level the playing field since cruisers get more damage output, science even more survival and moderate damage output and escorts get a small boost to keep up with the cruisers/science.
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