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Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 526
# 61
01-28-2013, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandormen123 View Post
[Brings out popcorn, thinking how funny it is to read about moaners that scream for God-mode buttons... ...Mah ship must turn on a dime. Insta-oneshott, tank borg queen lancewaeponz alone, heal everything at once 200%. At least...]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Are we speaking about escorts ?
Yeah, I think the guy is talking about escorts.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 62
01-28-2013, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathos1978 View Post
Devs knows, that with ability to slot multiple such arrays, their belowed DHC escorts would be kicked from the top of the food chain. It wont happen, ever.

).
Or the more obviuos reason may simply be that a ship that is completely armed with weapons that do not have a drain mechanic wpuld be OP compared to every other vessel weapon combo.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 01-28-2013 at 10:20 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 63
01-28-2013, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xigbarg View Post
Yeah, I think the guy is talking about escorts.
Or he is talking about how funny it is that escorts are considered "broken and OP" by some becuase many minmax builds exist that make them tough to kill and hard hitting yet those same moaners rather than work to get balanced changes want drastic changes to achieve the same level of gameplay that just give it without thought build design or balance in general becuase they have become blinded by thier jealousy to see that the escorts have to work at being so tough given thier limited engie and science slots to use for healing and resist stacking. The hard hitting comes easier for escorts becuase that is the focus of both thier design and thier class designed for them.
Or how low brow the NPCs are that it makes surviving PvE look easy. Honestly the issue with cruisers is not that they cant survive endgame NPCs but that they have issues dealing burst damage like escorts so those optionals are easier.

Whats the honest complaint put forth by the cruisers amd nonTac classes Ive seen posted.... "Why should I have to spend 45 minutes doing what it takes an Escort to do in 15?".
Thats points more toward player Impatience than game Imbalance


That could very well be what he finding so entertaining.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 01-28-2013 at 10:38 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 64
01-28-2013, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
But the new array, is ugly plasma ? GIVE ME PHASER. I would really love STARFLEET variant of the rumulan set with phasers + photons. Sad part is, the romulan set is almost the thing I imagined for Galaxy set.

Console - > saucer sep
Romulan set like Heavy Phaser Beam array
Omega-like (with charges) dual photon torpedo launcher

2: piece bonus +phaser dmg
3: piece bonus heavy beam array hit
We need Phased Plasma. Plasma-Tetryon. Plasma-Polaron. Plasma-Chroniton. It's just not feasible to create every possible combination of equipment tailored to every individual's wishes for their preferred energy type. If you don't like plasma, don't use the array.
All cloaks should be canon.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 526
# 65
01-28-2013, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Or he is talking about how funny it is that escorts are considered "broken and OP" by some becuase many minmax builds exist that make them tough to kill and hard hitting yet those same moaners rather than work to get balanced changes want drastic changes to achieve the same level of gameplay that just give it without thought build design or balance in general becuase they have become blinded by thier jealousy to see that the escorts have to work at being so tough given thier limited engie and science slots to use for healing and resist stacking. The hard hitting comes easier for escorts becuase that is the focus of both thier design and thier class designed for them.

That could very well be what he finding so entertaining.
Good thing I never considered them op or broken. They do their jobs but I always see it as this. Like a few other MMOs, metagamers would prefer max dps output over the chance of tanking because why have to tank when you can take things out in a matter of seconds to minutes? With DPS as king, the power drain on beams shouldn't be so severe that the DPS dood would tell you to walk out the door because you can't do the job that could have been filled by another escort. Especially science vessels. Beams will never match the power of cannons but that doesn't mean that they should be so sad to look at in terms of damage and with how iconic they are in the shows.

Im not saying that the community has gotten like that. It's just a looming thought.

Last edited by xigbarg; 01-28-2013 at 10:47 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 66
01-28-2013, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xigbarg View Post
Good thing I never considered them op or broken. They do their jobs but I always see it as this. Like a few other MMOs, metagamers would prefer max dps output over the chance of tanking because why have to tank when you can take things out in a matter of seconds to minutes? With DPS as king, the power drain on beams shouldn't be so severe that the DPS dood would tell you to walk out the door because you can't do the job that could have been filled by another escort. Especially science vessels. Beams will never match the power of cannons but that doesn't mean that they should be so sad to look at in terms of damage and with how iconic they are in the shows.

Im not saying that the community has gotten like that. It's just a looming thought.
I agree. Beams should not be so sad in comparison that they do not appeal to the players in general. It also should not be so sad of a design of PvE play that they escorts can oneshot as easily as the NPCs. Blasters blasting for high damage is nothing new in gaming but usaully the game is designed so its not so onetime effective all the time.
Tanking should have a place in anygame as much as blasting and CC. Currently the fault woth STO is that only DPS is needed. STFs and the other endgame content should actually require a varied team skill effort.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
# 67
01-28-2013, 11:56 AM
Hi,

I have something I think might complicate things a bit more for you all. Throughout this thread people have been saying over and over again that beams are too underpowered compared to cannons because cruisers armed with beams have a harder time dealing damage than escorts armed with cannons.
BUT, I would like to inject this into the arguement: I fly an escort WITH beams, and NO cannons. Because I am a Tac VA flying an Escort, it removes the "what ship I'm flying" and "what career officer I am" from the equation of "beams are weaker on a cruiser than cannons are on an escort". The fact remains that my beams on my escort are weaker than other peoples cannons on their escorts.

When I play STFs, I sit there firing my beams at a Borg ship, unloading my Torps at them too, only to have a fellow escort kill the thing in seconds with their cannons. Granted, there are other factors to consider in this scenario - I run a 2 dual beams: 2 torps (fore) & 2 turrets (aft) setup and they probably run 3/4 cannon: 1/0 torps (fore) & 3 turrets (aft), and I'm armed with anti-Borg Phasers rather than their anti-Borg Anti-Proton beams, but even so the contrast between the beams and the cannons is evident and vast.
(I know people will be scrambling over themselves now, telling me what I should or shouldn't be armed with, but I'm afraid I am not interested - this post, nor this thread, is a "what do you think my ship loadout should be" topic, it is a "beams are far too weak compared to cannons" topic, to which my experience as an escort with beams verses any escort with cannons is relevant.)

Now, I'm not saying that beams nor cannons should be altered, especially not just to please my own opinions. I am merely confirming that beams are weaker than cannons, when fired from the same classification of ship.

Last edited by wimpoman; 01-28-2013 at 11:58 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
# 68
01-28-2013, 12:01 PM
"Posts: 1" lol Since when? I guess all the rest were posted so long ago that they've been deleted/pruned.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 526
# 69
01-28-2013, 12:19 PM
Yeah it seems that when it gets too old, the user names are now call archived and will subtract from your post count.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 70
01-28-2013, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wimpoman View Post
*snip*
Ironically enough, you didn't complicate anything. And I can respect a beamscort, mostly because you are using DBBs which are very powerful and quite effective (anyone who's been on the receiving end of a de-cloaking alpha strike BO3 from a mk XII purple DBB on a fleet defiant can attest to this).

But it just goes to show, ship class isn't an issue in this particular area, since even escorts that run beams get gimped hard (as is to be expected, since the problem being discussed here is not the ship, but the weapon). Now I was looking over Momaw's and Roach's posts, and I am inclined to throw in a comment.

Imagine an 8 BA cruiser with 8 beams that drain NO weapon power. I know I can hit for 1250 easily on my opening shots with my Oddy (without critting). By the end of my 7 beam salvo, that damage is usually down around 6-700 (depending on a few factors). Now imagine 1250 (base damage) x8 (for each BA) x4 (for each shot). That brings your total salvo to 40000. That's 8.5k DPS. Easily. That is the kind of firepower you would be looking at from CASUAL offensive cruisers if you completely removed the power drain from beams.

Now add in the ~20% bonus from EPtW3, and another 10% damage from using mk XII purple tactical consoles. Then add in another 30% for another tactical console (since the tac Oddy can only have 3 tac consoles, whereas purely tactical cruisers i.e. FAC can have 4), and then another 20% from random crits, and you will get 72000 as your total salvo.

72000 over the space of 4 seconds (~15k DPS once you put recharge time in). That's approaching maximized escort level damage. From a cruiser. With beams. And this is even WITHOUT APA3 and other major damage enhancing/boosting APs and abilities. This is just an engineering ability and skills alone. That would be the result of no power drain.

And now to put it into real perspective, take that 72000 and multiply it by 2.2 for APA3, APO1, GDF, FOMM3, and more random crits as a result of APA3 and APO1. 158400 (~35k DPS). In one salvo. Can you say... ouch?

Anyways, my figures might be whacked and probably slightly exaggerated, but you get the general idea. As much as I would be HIGHLY entertained to see this happen (and the summary MAJOR rage on the forums), that's broken, even to me, a very biased pro-cruiser player (pro being for, not pro as in good).
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
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