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Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 41
# 71
01-28-2013, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wimpoman View Post
"Posts: 1" lol Since when? I guess all the rest were posted so long ago that they've been deleted/pruned.
Don't feel bad. I know all of mine got reset when I converted to PWE login.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,033
# 72
01-28-2013, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I
Imagine an 8 BA cruiser with 8 beams that drain NO weapon power. I know I can hit for 1250 easily on my opening shots with my Oddy (without critting). By the end of my 7 beam salvo, that damage is usually down around 6-700 (depending on a few factors). Now imagine 1250 (base damage) x8 (for each BA) x4 (for each shot). That brings your total salvo to 40000. That's 8.5k DPS. Easily. That is the kind of firepower you would be looking at from CASUAL offensive cruisers if you completely removed the power drain from beams.
Actually I do know. Eight base Mk 0 beam arrays with no energy drain would deal 1,600 DPS. With current drain four base Mk 0 dual heavy cannons and three turrets deal 1,202 DPS. Combine that with the extra crit multiplier bonus of the DHCs, superior boff abilities, and ability to put the better procs on the turrets at point blank range the beams might do the same damage. The superior falloff though would give those beams advantage at long range engagements though.

Pretty mess up no?

Oh and just for reference 8.5k DPS is not that impressive now days. For kicks my tac fleet defiant kills ISE spheres as the spawn on the first side. Those things have 200k hull and not a single one lives long enough to even become 'active' and that is at 8km distance so I don't agro the gate.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 73
01-28-2013, 06:01 PM
I agree beams need to have a pass over to check balance.
Though maybe when they finish fixing FAW that'll go part the way to fixing things up.

I don't think power levels is the only answer though, cruisers can keep weapons power high through various abilities and doffs (DEM one for example).

I'd like to see BO changed to be something that drains ALL weapons power for say 3 seconds, and that it applies the BO effect to all arrays for 2 seconds after attacking before draining weapons power completely. That way cruisers can do a massive 8 beam broadside BO attack. Power drain resists like nadion wouldn't negate the 100% power loss. The 3 sec, 0 weapons power, is to deter escorts from being OP with it. Maybe there's another way of doing that better.

Then, I'd buff EPtW3 to give more power back, so something only cruisers typically have access to can be used to recover the huge power loss of the BO sooner. Perhaps also give only EPtW3 a bit of a weapons drain resist component too.


I also want to see DEM buffed big time, mainly DEM2 and importantly DEM3. Only DEM3 can be put on full on cruisers, yet it is such a rubbish ability. The weapons drain boff for DEM is a good addition, but I want to see DEM3 penetration damage doubled or tripled. My DEM3 damage only equates to 46 DPV! Considering the slower volley rate of beams I think that's kinda sad imo.

I agree with needing beam turrets. Why not? Would help those using DBB's have beam abilities that buff all weapons, not just their forward facing ones. Though FAW on beam turrets from an escort would be funny. Maybe FAW on beam turrets can be focussed into forward arcs or something.

Also, innate energy type procs (phaser disable, disruptor hull debuff etc), their proc severity needs to be doubled or at least increased on beams I think. They fire slower and need compensation for that fact by procing harder.

Anyway, my 2c.
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Last edited by eradicator84; 01-28-2013 at 06:17 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,033
# 74
01-28-2013, 07:45 PM
DEM does not list the proper damage that it truely deals unless you have phasers equipped. Or atleast it used to be that way. It seems to add roughly 10% ish more damage strait to hull and is effected by current weapon power when the shot is made.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 75
01-29-2013, 05:44 AM
DEM would be total trash even if it did increase your damage by 10%.

Why?

Because it's an ability with a gratuitously long cooldown that provides significantly less performance than Attack Pattern Beta 1, which slots lower and cycles faster. And you're not going to realistically kill anything with the increased bleedthrough which is the only thing it does better. There's no DOFF that reduces the cooldown time, there's only one DOFF that affects it at all and that's only for a fraction of its already-poor up time. You can't specialize in this to make it worthwhile. I cannot think of a practical situation in which a full blooded cruiser with the high level engineering to spare wouldn't be better served by Extend Shields or Aux2SIF.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 155
# 76
01-29-2013, 07:37 AM
Call me crazy, but I love PBAs on my Fed ships, and DBA/TBA/PBAs...on my Klinks. MkXI and XII purples or blues of course.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,166
# 77
01-29-2013, 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharyssa View Post
Call me crazy, but I love PBAs on my Fed ships, and DBA/TBA/PBAs...on my Klinks. MkXI and XII purples or blues of course.
I won't call you crazy. I prefer them, too, from a purely aesthetic point of view. Space combat just rings more like Star Trek for me when I see beams.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 414
# 78
01-29-2013, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
My Engineer in a Steamrunner disagrees. He tanks tac cubes and still does more damage than a beam boat is capable of.

For that matter my Tac in a Fleet Defiant also disagrees, he can tank tac cubes for about a minute without a sweat and does more damage than my steamrunner and a beam boat combined! If said cube isn't dead after a minute well that just means I disengage for about ten seconds and groan about bad PuGs before going in to finish the job.

Because you see, the two most important parts about tanking in STO would be Emergency Power to Shields and a solid amount of shield power. Oh and Hazard Emitters. And the Yo-Yo manuever. That's about all one needs.
If you read my post I said an engineer in a cruiser, not an eng or a tac in escorts. I made no mention of escorts.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 803
# 79
01-29-2013, 03:00 PM
How about this, give beams more range then cannons. Like 2km extra
This will help against escort style targets that move out of range in less then a firing cycle and gives beams a distinct advantage over cannons without increasing their damage.

Then beams need a CSV like ability beside the total discoball that shots everything in range. Something more targetable that is not a single target beam overload.

The utility of beams is less then with cannons simple because you only have unbuffed fire, single target punch or shot everything that moves, all around you.

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
-= KAGE 5:43 =-
[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 185
# 80
01-29-2013, 03:48 PM
Well I tried really really hard to stay away from this thread but I have to put my 2 cents in lol.

Beams are for ranged attacks, Cannons are for close combat.

Beams at close range do next to no dps and the same can be said for Cannons at a distance.

The OP started this thread winging about beams in close combat, (main reason I didn't won't to post because the whole beams vs cannons often ends up as a flame fest).

I have ships with beams and they all stay over 5km from the target any closer and I loose to much dps only time I do get close if I'm chasing a team mate to heal them lol.

I also have ships with cannons that attack up close and personal and stay less than 5km to target if I get to far away from the target my cannons do minimal dps.

Don't believe me test it out for your selves, jump in your ship and start an attack run on a single target 10km away if your using cannons watch how your dps increases as you get closer and the opposite can be said for beams watch how your dps drops as you get closer.
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