Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,914
# 81
01-29-2013, 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ariseabove View Post
Don't believe me test it out for your selves, jump in your ship and start an attack run on a single target 10km away if your using cannons watch how your dps increases as you get closer and the opposite can be said for beams watch how your dps drops as you get closer.
Strange then that my cruiser (Running BAs) does max damage hugging a target (admittedly base turn of 8deg/s helps but my point still stands)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 747
# 82
01-29-2013, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Because it's an ability with a gratuitously long cooldown that provides significantly less performance than Attack Pattern Beta 1, which slots lower and cycles faster. And you're not going to realistically kill anything with the increased bleedthrough which is the only thing it does better. There's no DOFF that reduces the cooldown time, there's only one DOFF that affects it at all and that's only for a fraction of its already-poor up time. You can't specialize in this to make it worthwhile. I cannot think of a practical situation in which a full blooded cruiser with the high level engineering to spare wouldn't be better served by Extend Shields or Aux2SIF.
You mean serve you better with team buff/heal abilities

My tanking cruisers with Com and LTC engy boffs doesn't need the Com and one LTC slot for tank/heal abilities, I can quite happily tank anything (bar borg queen :} ) whilst having EWP3/DEM3 and EWP1/DEM2 available.

In my experience, just using beams it takes quite a while to whittle away an stf borgs shields. In PvP I've no hope of downing a shield facing one on one. Thats why I think direct to hull damage should be the cruisers speciality. They have 3 such abilites that do this, Aceton beam, eject warp and DEM.

Aceton beam is more about the enemies energy weapons debuff than it is the radiation DoT. EWP3 is the ONLY direct hull damage engy Com ability that does any sizable damage. DEM3 does nothing noticeable. No one uses it at the moment for a reason, it is currently rubbish.

I'd go as far to say that with my setup, Aceton 1 does more DoT per tick (80 to hull off the top of my head) than DEM does per pulse (~40 according to tool tips).

That's why I reckon DEM, mainly DEM3 a cruiser only ability needs a makeover. Get through the shields and apply some meaningful direct to hull dps. Become a proper cruiser dps ability.

I wouldn't call the active time bad. 30 seconds it remains active for, but yeah the cool down is bad at 1min 30s. Would be happier if it was just 1min flat.

I also wouldn't go comparing it to attack patterns, cruiser typically can't slot attack partterns anyway, DEM is the only Com lvl energy weapon ability engies have, it should at least be effective.
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Devs, need Fleet Orion Marauder and Dacoit please! :-)

Using - Bulwark, Voth Fighter. Favs - Fleet Corsair, Mogh, Bastion, Nicor, JHEC, JAS
Some others - Orion Marauder, Chel Grett, Guramba, Risian Corvette, Risian Cruiser
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 747
# 83
01-29-2013, 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Strange then that my cruiser (Running BAs) does max damage hugging a target (admittedly base turn of 8deg/s helps but my point still stands)
Agreed. Beams do more damage the closer you are. Though they peak further away, like 3-4km rather than cannons 2km or something.
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Devs, need Fleet Orion Marauder and Dacoit please! :-)

Using - Bulwark, Voth Fighter. Favs - Fleet Corsair, Mogh, Bastion, Nicor, JHEC, JAS
Some others - Orion Marauder, Chel Grett, Guramba, Risian Corvette, Risian Cruiser
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 89
# 84
01-29-2013, 05:12 PM
beams work fine for what they were intended for, however they could do with a retooling on their power drain per fire, its rather silly to hit spacebar and the lights on the bridge dim...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 85
01-29-2013, 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
DEM would be total trash even if it did increase your damage by 10%.

Why?

Because it's an ability with a gratuitously long cooldown that provides significantly less performance than Attack Pattern Beta 1, which slots lower and cycles faster. And you're not going to realistically kill anything with the increased bleedthrough which is the only thing it does better. There's no DOFF that reduces the cooldown time, there's only one DOFF that affects it at all and that's only for a fraction of its already-poor up time. You can't specialize in this to make it worthwhile. I cannot think of a practical situation in which a full blooded cruiser with the high level engineering to spare wouldn't be better served by Extend Shields or Aux2SIF.
thats why you combine both. DEM+Beta+disruptor proc+harpeng/plasma dot. It hurts.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 86
01-30-2013, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloctoad View Post
Once again the misconception that player versus player denotes a one versus one interaction is perpetuated. Successful PVP is always balanced around team interaction which leads to the second point.

Also perpetuated is the fallacy that every ship/character/weapon/skill must be able to perform every function of every other ship/character/weapon/skill in an equal or even roughly equal fashion. When differentiation is removed, choices no longer exist and tactics become unnecessary.
It doesn't take a team effort fo an escort to out gun a cruiser and take it out by itself. Why is it that the cruiser need team help but the escort don't?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 87
01-30-2013, 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Actually I'm beginning to wonder if beams are underpowered.

Or are turrets overpowered? I vote we remove turrets, or increase their power drain to 10 and cut their damage in half. This is half sarcastic.
Turrets? I think you mean cannons. Turrets are the weakest weapons in the game. I was in PVP and was escaping a bttle so i can write a bug report to the GM and some KDF player followed me to the end of the map with his tier 5 Vorcha. He was armed with all turrets. While I was buys writing the complaint letter, he was hammering away at my Galaxy Dreadnought. I didn't bother to move, attack him or heal myself. My shields were withstanding his onslaught without effort and my hull was healing itself faster than the bleed-through damage. I had no time to respond to him, I was just hoping he would get the message that i was not interseted in playing against him and he was not match for me. Get rid of turrets of do something with them so they are effective.

We are talking about Beams and cannons, not turrets.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 88
01-30-2013, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
What is the sense of equiping DHCs on a KDF battle cruiser if you don't have the turn rate to use them in PvP? Every escort will simply park in your back, where only the turrets tickle their shield, while the majority of firepower, the DHCs in the front, cannot unload their damage. Even normal cannons are useless, because they also don't fire backwards.

Sure, in PvE, the KDF battle cruisers are superior in damage compared with the Fed ones, because of cannon damage. In PvE you can even equip the BortasQ with DHC. PvP is a quite different thing.

In PvE, only if Fed cruiser using the Aux2Bat build, they can match the damage with beam arrays. However, for this they need to give up alot of tanking ability, while KDF battle cruiser can go heavy tank and do good damage.
Don't use turrets as your rear weapons. I learned this the hard way. Torpedos or all beams is the best you can do in rear. Unfortunately torpedo damdage is deminished by shields and beams don't drain shields as good to discourage escorts from parking on your rear.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,914
# 89
01-30-2013, 08:48 AM
If I might bring your attention to this, keep it clean though as the devs are officially reading it but we can have a good beam discussion there as even the PvPers have brought it up.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 90
01-30-2013, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmallm View Post
I don't think they are BS. My Fed cruiser uses 4 of them, granted I PVE solo most my gaming time. With that set up it can do damage from broadside. I focus all 4 on a target, drop speed down to a crawl, and just rain down on it. Soon as the shields drop, turn head on and fire torpedoes. Using this I blown up all kinds of ships. It all matters how your play style is. Also very handy on those pesky fighters and multiple smaller ships you fight. I use the "Fire at Will" on those to help take those out faster as well.

Now my KDF Battlecruiser is different. That one is packing DHCs and DBs in the front. So that ship is totally different on how to attack. That one you don't want it to be facing you. As it will literally eat ships of any size up. Even the Battleship ones, I call those easy targets.

Beams has their place in use, and different play styles. I don't have any problems with them.
PVE doesn't really show the true potential of your ship's capabilities. Most NPC's aren't buffed up like players when they fight you. Its always easier to drop NPC's shields faster than player because there is no buff running. NPC's rarely heal themselves, as well.
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