Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,437
# 471
03-11-2013, 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronplah78 View Post
Ok.... so.... I don't understand. We both know all the people complaining on this thread about the ship requirements, and so you have the JHAS. So, what exactly is the issue? I can't assume there is one if you have the VERY ship needed to meet the JHAS hangar pet requirements.
were you not paying attention to anything he said? the JAS hangar is already unique to the dreadnought; it doesn't need an additional lockout in the form of needing to own an actual JAS, especially since the hangars suck
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwecaptainsmirk View Post
*reassuringly strokes your hair*
Hush now, you will be back kicking Neelix and killing those nasty Vaadwaur soon enough... hush child.
*pat pat on your head*
epic smirk is epic
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,254
# 472
03-12-2013, 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
were you not paying attention to anything he said? the JAS hangar is already unique to the dreadnought; it doesn't need an additional lockout in the form of needing to own an actual JAS, especially since the hangars suck
Very True.

There was no reason for the Hanger Bug to be locked away from all owners of the Dread Carrer, it was just a money grab move

The best way to deal with a Troll is to starve them and to tihink of their post has bumps for the thread.

The DEVs refuse to respond to any of the issues raised here and I think we should try reaching out to the podcasts again to see if any of them will ask any of the DEVs that they interview about this issue.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 852
# 473
03-12-2013, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronplah78 View Post
Ok.... so.... I don't understand. We both know all the people complaining on this thread about the ship requirements, and so you have the JHAS. So, what exactly is the issue? I can't assume there is one if you have the VERY ship needed to meet the JHAS hangar pet requirements.
This is why you are considered a troll, you see only one side which has no competators, and the other side with people talking intelligently as to why they locked it out and why it doesnt make sense.

I have the JHAS hangar pets now, still it sucks. They call it a bonus for the JHAS owners? I needed to have the JHAS and the JHDC to get them, that alone would be 60-70k dil, or just under 10k EC, but I can still only use this supposed bonus on my JHDC. If it were a real bonus then there would be no specific carrier requirements and it only be able to be purchased by the JHAS owners. That would be a bonus to the JHAS owners.

but the way it is now, just slapps both sides in the face, first you need to own the JHAS then the only way to use the JHAS bonus is to own the JHDC which I must either pay 70mil ec for or 800 lobi, and only then can I buy the hangar pets which can only be used on the JHDC.

if you don't understand then let this be my final response to you.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
# 474
03-12-2013, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
were you not paying attention to anything he said? the JAS hangar is already unique to the dreadnought; it doesn't need an additional lockout in the form of needing to own an actual JAS, especially since the hangars suck
Yes I know exactly what he said, you are being redundant because we all know the complaint is about having the JHAS to unlock the JHAS hangar pets. This has been discussed repeatedly. If you feel you need to get to the DEVs via other social media means, then by all means go ahead. I believe I have also mentioned before, also look at it as another alternative, that the devs have made the JHAS available 3 times now to the players, so you can almost guarantee that it will be available again, and instead of taking chances of buying the doff packs or maybe even in a lockbox this time, look it up on the exchange because plenty of others will get it and the prices will not be so ridiculously high. It's best to start saving up resources to all those, F2P or Subs. Other than what I mentioned, the latter is more likely to happen. I understand as well as you all do that Cryptic is trying to make money, well of course it's business. People who want things bad enough are willing to pay for it, and don't say they shouldn't have to, it's called opportunity. If you're a f2p account or a sub who just doesn't have the money outside of the game, then that's life, not all of us can afford it. Complaining doesn't necessarily get you what you want. There is alot of people who posted on this forum who don't have the JHAS and they seem to be he most aggressive in regards to this issue. Oh yes... They just won't admit that is the basis behind their argument.
THE POWER OF KRATOS!!!
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 87
# 475
03-12-2013, 01:07 PM
No one is arguing that Cryptic is out to make money, but there such a thing as reasonable limits, which also means there is a line that can be crossed that becomes gouging and even predatory.

With something like this, Cryptic isn't targeting a casual player base, it is targeting a combination of people with some sorta disfunction and gaming addicts.

This is the kind of extreme cost and lock out associated with price gouging in the past for many other industry types and thus government agencies have stepped in and put some controls on many of those industries to prevent unfair and ridicules pricing.

You could claim that cryptic is a private company that has the right to do that and that no one is forcing you to pay for their stuff, but the phone companies are private industries as well, and the government doesn't allow phone companies to wire tap its own customers.

Gaming companies who do not realize this and hold back properly, are the kind of gaming companies who become predatory. They become the kind of company that does research on addictive behavior, not to prevent the problem, but to find ways to exploit the behavior and us it to their advantage to make more sells.

More then a century ago tobacco products and alcohol where considered perfectly ok, with no health or well being risks. Anyone who claimed that those things where bad where scoffed at, looked down upon and even ostracized from society. Now days, we know better and have the scientific data to back it up.

Gaming addiction and companies who abuse it are in that stage right now. The idea is only being recently realized by a handful, and most are rejecting the idea as nonsense.

But this Lockout issue is one of those things that would have to exploit a gaming addicts compulsion more then it exploits the desire of someone who wants something.

Most people who want this dread and its best hanger pets understand reasonable limits. They won't pay an unreasonable price to get what they want. That is why this thread is exploding with complaints. The price greatly exceeds reasonable limits.

Last edited by jadenmia; 03-12-2013 at 01:24 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
# 476
03-12-2013, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadenmia View Post
....Most people who want this dread and its best hanger pets understand reasonable limits. They won't pay an unreasonable price to get what they want. That is why this thread is exploding with complaints. The price greatly exceeds reasonable limits.
I read your whole post. Finally, a good argument. Yes I agree, it seems very unreasonable, and I personally wouldn't pay 1/2 a billion ECs to buy a JHAS. I simple was being opportunistic when I saw the exchange prices plummet during the last promotion for the ship... I was at the right place at the right time.

Do we all really believe Cryptic is responsible for the prices of the JHAS on the exchange? Most of STO economy is player driven, though it's a bit of a joke as someone can become a multi-millionaire by buying keys and spam-selling them on the exchange for example. The rarity of the ship suggests an item of high value to potential 'swindlers' (maybe a little harsh), but those same people are selling the ships for like 1/2 a billion, which is pretty much in game extortion. it's either THAT or people are forced to buy a pile of keys or spend on zen hoping to get a ship that may never drop. Now when I got mine JHAS, I knew those same 'extortionists' would finally get a little 'payback' as lots of other people would be getting the bug and a huge pricing battle would be occurring on the exchange.

I think that cryptic does have some of the blame BUT there are players in the STO community who are trying to take advantage of other people, so everyone needs to think 'outside the box', because your very neighbour in the game may be the same person trying to bleed out your pockets.
THE POWER OF KRATOS!!!
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 87
# 477
03-12-2013, 07:18 PM
Players placing a high value on the JHAS due to its rarity is not simply a player based phenomenon. Every economic system through out the world and its history has always placed extremely high cost on rare items. It simply is a marketing rule that has existed since humans could make economic systems. It would not have changed just because of a couple complaints.

But to require such a rare hard to get ship to unlock the dreads hanger pets as a bonus, when actually taking what that ship can do and those locked pets, placing a reasonable value on that, comparing it with other ships that exist, even taking into account factional content and ability imbalances and relevant concerns, making out a realistic value of all that, and then figuring out the value of what it currently takes to get the dread and the Advanced JHAS Hanger Pets...

The real value of the Dread and the JHAS hanger pets don't come any where close to the outrageous value to gain it, regardless of via keys, via exchange or seasonal event. Especially when you have a clearly comparable ship, the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and its Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate as an easily comparable reference. Even if not completely equal, they are close enough the same to be a reasonable comparison to realize the value of the dread and its pets as pretty near to the 2000 zen to unlock the Kar'Fi. Any other relevant concerns make the 800 lobi within reason, and the 30k+/60k+ for the pets within reason. But not forcing the player base to require the JHAS playable ship it self to unlock the hanger pets.

Not saying there shouldn't be a bonus, because there should be a bonus to players with the JHAS, that is unlocked account wide due to the ship rarity, such as reduction in pricing for the JHAS hanger pets on the dread, and special abilities exclusive to having the playable JHAS on that account, but not the hanger pet lockout that currently exist. That value is way out of balance in extremes and does nothing more then cause this kind of strife in the board community.

This is like turning around and suddenly deciding to lock out the Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate for the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier because no one has a Fer'Jai playable ship. Klink players would be outraged. I would certainty be POed if I couldn't use my Advanced Fer'jai, because cryptic decided to lock them up like they have with the JHAS/dread requirement.

http://www.stowiki.org/Carrier_Pets
http://www.stowiki.org/Jem%E2%80%99H...nought_Carrier
http://www.stowiki.org/Kar%27Fi_Battle_Carrier


Even a decently direct comparison of the pets yields value in favor of the Fer'Jai Pets.
Though we are comparing a sci carrier vs a tact carrier that can get a console set, they both still have the same weapons slots pretty closely similar boff and console slots, and the differences are made up for in what specials they do have.
The Dread has more crew, more hull, 1 extra console slot, +5 more to aux and special console set
The Kar'Fi has stronger shields, lighter weight, faster engines and phase shifting cloaking while still able to shoot, while having better pets that have higher crit chances, more pet abilities, tri-cobolt weapons and even CC chronitons torps and aceton beam.

With good players behind each ship, it is likely the 2 ships and their pets would be closely evenly matched.

With that being the truth, it cannot possible be reasonable to lock the dreads JHAS pet behind a requirement of owning the playable JHAS.

If it was simply an honest mistake, a small over sight, it would have been changed a while back. It would have been a simply, "opps, my bad! click, click, type, type, save, corrected and done!"

But it hasn't gone like that...

Last edited by jadenmia; 03-12-2013 at 07:41 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,254
# 478
03-13-2013, 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadenmia View Post
Players placing a high value on the JHAS due to its rarity is not simply a player based phenomenon. Every economic system through out the world and its history has always placed extremely high cost on rare items. It simply is a marketing rule that has existed since humans could make economic systems. It would not have changed just because of a couple complaints.

But to require such a rare hard to get ship to unlock the dreads hanger pets as a bonus, when actually taking what that ship can do and those locked pets, placing a reasonable value on that, comparing it with other ships that exist, even taking into account factional content and ability imbalances and relevant concerns, making out a realistic value of all that, and then figuring out the value of what it currently takes to get the dread and the Advanced JHAS Hanger Pets...

The real value of the Dread and the JHAS hanger pets don't come any where close to the outrageous value to gain it, regardless of via keys, via exchange or seasonal event. Especially when you have a clearly comparable ship, the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and its Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate as an easily comparable reference. Even if not completely equal, they are close enough the same to be a reasonable comparison to realize the value of the dread and its pets as pretty near to the 2000 zen to unlock the Kar'Fi. Any other relevant concerns make the 800 lobi within reason, and the 30k+/60k+ for the pets within reason. But not forcing the player base to require the JHAS playable ship it self to unlock the hanger pets.

Not saying there shouldn't be a bonus, because there should be a bonus to players with the JHAS, that is unlocked account wide due to the ship rarity, such as reduction in pricing for the JHAS hanger pets on the dread, and special abilities exclusive to having the playable JHAS on that account, but not the hanger pet lockout that currently exist. That value is way out of balance in extremes and does nothing more then cause this kind of strife in the board community.

This is like turning around and suddenly deciding to lock out the Advanced Fer'Jai Frigate for the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier because no one has a Fer'Jai playable ship. Klink players would be outraged. I would certainty be POed if I couldn't use my Advanced Fer'jai, because cryptic decided to lock them up like they have with the JHAS/dread requirement.

http://www.stowiki.org/Carrier_Pets
http://www.stowiki.org/Jem%E2%80%99H...nought_Carrier
http://www.stowiki.org/Kar%27Fi_Battle_Carrier


Even a decently direct comparison of the pets yields value in favor of the Fer'Jai Pets.
Though we are comparing a sci carrier vs a tact carrier that can get a console set, they both still have the same weapons slots pretty closely similar boff and console slots, and the differences are made up for in what specials they do have.
The Dread has more crew, more hull, 1 extra console slot, +5 more to aux and special console set
The Kar'Fi has stronger shields, lighter weight, faster engines and phase shifting cloaking while still able to shoot, while having better pets that have higher crit chances, more pet abilities, tri-cobolt weapons and even CC chronitons torps and aceton beam.

With good players behind each ship, it is likely the 2 ships and their pets would be closely evenly matched.

With that being the truth, it cannot possible be reasonable to lock the dreads JHAS pet behind a requirement of owning the playable JHAS.

If it was simply an honest mistake, a small over sight, it would have been changed a while back. It would have been a simply, "opps, my bad! click, click, type, type, save, corrected and done!"

But it hasn't gone like that...
IMO Cryptic is trying to find a way to tap into the Carrier Player Base to see if they can find any way to get us to spend some more money and the lock out of the Hanger Bugs makes me feel like I'm correct.

I can't speak much for the Fed side but it seems like 60% of the KDF players are using 2 Hanger Carriers and Cryptic would most likely see a nice bump in revenue it they could figure out a way to get us to accept having to pay extra cash just to unlock Hanger options that can only be used by the Carriers that we own.

I can't find any really logical reason at all for Cryptic to implement such a move other than to see if Carrier Pilots would be willing to pony up cash for a chance at the Bug ship just to unlock Hanger options for The Dreadnought Carrier that should have been available to somehow acquire for just owing the Carrier itself.

Carriers are really the only type of vessel in STO that this type of junk can be done with and I'm sure that we'll see Cryptic pull something close to what they're doing with the Dreadnought to the Recluse and the Breen Capitol Ship when it gets added has a player controlled ship.

I still predict that all future Carriers will have their Frigate sized Hanger Options sold on a per Character basis VIA the Lobi Store and this move with the Dreadnought was only done to get us to see that the Lobi option is better than the alternative.

I think the main reason that not one DEV has commented on this topic is because they have no possible defense against the many valid reasons that we've offered up has to why this should have never been done.

Strangely I still enjoy playing STO; however, this move with the Dreadnought upsets me to no end and it makes me wonder what else Cryptic will pull in the name of the almighty dollar.
Ensign
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
# 479
03-13-2013, 06:28 PM
48 pages of discussion later and no response from the slimy devs.

Should anyone be surprised that they were specifically told to say nothing in response to or in relation to the incredibly douchey JHAS stunt?

Nope.

It's simply who they are. They can't help it. Just like it would be in their nature not to help a homeless woman with a baby. In fact, they'd look around and if nobody was looking, they'd douse the pair in gasoline and light em on fire.

Because it's the kind of people they are. The honorable and honest among them were long ago buried in shallow graves by their supervisors. All that remains now are the ones that hate happiness and yell at children just so they can see them cry.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,254
# 480
03-14-2013, 09:53 AM
I just listened to the Podcast UGC interview with Captain Geko and I was surprised that they did not bring up the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier and its Hanger Attack Ships, it was still a pretty good interview.
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