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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,179
# 91
03-20-2013, 08:03 PM
Another thing, it took people killing too fast in ESTFs to change the tric mines. I think people should get into romulan boffed b'rels, load up on cluster torpedos and post some ESTF runs on youtube. Then make a PVE hero thread in the pve forums saying how awesome you are. then maybe then we might get a change.


just a thought
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,560
# 92
03-20-2013, 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmy1081 View Post
Another thing, it took people killing too fast in ESTFs to change the tric mines. I think people should get into romulan boffed b'rels, load up on cluster torpedos and post some ESTF runs on youtube. Then make a PVE hero thread in the pve forums saying how awesome you are. then maybe then we might get a change.


just a thought
Bad! Bad!

This is an easy to get item that lets the pugs do at least some damage in Elite STFs.

Do we really want to take that away from them?
I mean my escorts may survive that and try to deal damage all by themselves (and would die a lot) , but my cruiser would be in trouble dpsing down everything all by itself.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,179
# 93
03-20-2013, 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
Bad! Bad!

This is an easy to get item that lets the pugs do at least some damage in Elite STFs.

Do we really want to take that away from them?
I mean my escorts may survive that and try to deal damage all by themselves (and would die a lot) , but my cruiser would be in trouble dpsing down everything all by itself.
In an ESTF? I've taken a fresh sovy into ISE and KASE with nothing changed but the shields to a plasma resistant one and done fine. But that's besides the point. I don't want it gone, it just needs to be changed.

Last edited by rmy1081; 03-20-2013 at 08:47 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,546
# 94
03-20-2013, 09:17 PM
Ehhhh... Honestly people need to just stop crying about this thing.

Its really not that powerful....

Yes if it chain crits you can be close to one shot...

So what...

Counters include but are not limited to...

1) SHOT IT... you shoot it with anything its dead.
2) RUN from it... Evasive manuvers... 45s cool down we all have it.
3) Brace for impact... Even if it crits it will tickle... 45s cool down we ALL HAVE it.
4) Photonic Shockwave
5) Gravity well
6) Tykens Rift
7) Tractor beam repulsors
8) Tractor beam... yes I know it seems like a waste but in a pinch it will kill it. lol
9) Eject Warp Plasma
10) Aux to Damp... yes even if you pop this with 40 power in aux the phasic mines will tickle.
11) Polzarized Hull... again massive resist to these things.
12) Hazards... Pretty good resist to em... and for sure the hazards will out heal the dmg they do.

P2W Counters

13) Gravity Pulse
14) ISO
15) Theta
16) Aceton
17) Temperal Field
18) Barrier Field
19) Grappler... ya thats right I said it lol
20) Magnetometric Generator
21) Metryon gas thing
22) Nadion Det
23) Photonic Displacer
24) Phase Shift Generator
25) Point Defense System
26) Subspace Jumper
27) Sympathetic Fermion Transceiver
28) Tholian Web Generator
29) Torpedo Point Defense System
30) Impulse Capacitance Cell
31) Multidimensional Wave-Function Thingy

Anyway I'm sure I missed some stuff that would work... and not everything I listed is applicable to every ship... Still considering the laundry list I just put down... if you can't find 3-4 of those to reliably pop when you see a cluster torp coming your way... your just bad, and deserve a 90k crit chain up your nacelle.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,179
# 95
03-20-2013, 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Ehhhh... Honestly people need to just stop crying about this thing.

Its really not that powerful....

Yes if it chain crits you can be close to one shot...

So what...

Counters include but are not limited to...

1) SHOT IT... you shoot it with anything its dead.
2) RUN from it... Evasive manuvers... 45s cool down we all have it.
3) Brace for impact... Even if it crits it will tickle... 45s cool down we ALL HAVE it.
4) Photonic Shockwave
5) Gravity well
6) Tykens Rift
7) Tractor beam repulsors
8) Tractor beam... yes I know it seems like a waste but in a pinch it will kill it. lol
9) Eject Warp Plasma
10) Aux to Damp... yes even if you pop this with 40 power in aux the phasic mines will tickle.
11) Polzarized Hull... again massive resist to these things.
12) Hazards... Pretty good resist to em... and for sure the hazards will out heal the dmg they do.

P2W Counters

13) Gravity Pulse
14) ISO
15) Theta
16) Aceton
17) Temperal Field
18) Barrier Field
19) Grappler... ya thats right I said it lol
20) Magnetometric Generator
21) Metryon gas thing
22) Nadion Det
23) Photonic Displacer
24) Phase Shift Generator
25) Point Defense System
26) Subspace Jumper
27) Sympathetic Fermion Transceiver
28) Tholian Web Generator
29) Torpedo Point Defense System
30) Impulse Capacitance Cell
31) Multidimensional Wave-Function Thingy

Anyway I'm sure I missed some stuff that would work... and not everything I listed is applicable to every ship... Still considering the laundry list I just put down... if you can't find 3-4 of those to reliably pop when you see a cluster torp coming your way... your just bad, and deserve a 90k crit chain up your nacelle.
Im surprised I knew most of those counters...I even knew the tractor beam could stop them, but its hard to use most of those when danube spammed and VM'ed. Also, most good players will drop them right on you so you don't even see the torpedo before it clusters.

The easiest fix is to make them 1 per ship. Its not one torpedo I'm worried about, its the spamming of it I am.

I don't think we'll ever see chain crits go away in this game so I've given up on that.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,546
# 96
03-20-2013, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmy1081 View Post
Im surprised I knew most of those counters...I even knew the tractor beam could stop them, but its hard to use most of those when danube spammed and VM'ed. Also, most good players will drop them right on you so you don't even see the torpedo before it clusters.

The easiest fix is to make them 1 per ship. Its not one torpedo I'm worried about, its the spamming of it I am.

I don't think we'll ever see chain crits go away in this game so I've given up on that.
The issue isn't that people can slot more then one... the issue (as you see it, I think.. the cluster spam) is that doffs reduce there cool down. I can keep on breen cluster at global (which is 15s on the cluster) with only one and torp doffs. (you must be a committed torp boat obviously)

Honestly considering there the only reliable burst a torp boat has as an option. (Well I guess the omega torp HY is as well... but it costs a HY pattern)....

Considering that I am fine with them... You are seeing more of them recently because the tric torps where nerfed, and are no longer a burst weapon at all.

PS... even if your VMed... you can still hit brace for impact... which really will negate almost all there dmg.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,686
# 97
03-20-2013, 09:44 PM
or how about just fixing the issue with chain crits......THAT is the main cause...but hell..the only times i ever see clusters in use is PvE...its so rare in pvp due to all the pet spam or multitarget aoe attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,546
# 98
03-20-2013, 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynder2012 View Post
or how about just fixing the issue with chain crits......THAT is the main cause...but hell..the only times i ever see clusters in use is PvE...its so rare in pvp due to all the pet spam or multitarget aoe attacks.
I think people need to give up on the crit chain thing...

The crit chain exists in the game for a reason... long ago other Cryptic Developers (that designed the bones of the engine STO works on)... decided that for server issues Criticals would be calculated once. I really don't think they did that because they where lazy or overlooked it. I would speculate that they made the decision to do it that way because not doing that way would be a massive load on the server.
(Consider that other Developers in the industry... almost always design systems where DOT dmg doesn't crit roll at all... there is a reason for that and its not just balance)

Bort mentioned he was asking systems about it awhile back... and he has been quite on it since. I would bet Systems told him it wasn't going to happen unless he could talk PWE into tripling the STO server farm.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,686
# 99
03-20-2013, 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I think people need to give up on the crit chain thing...

The crit chain exists in the game for a reason... long ago other Cryptic Developers (that designed the bones of the engine STO works on)... decided that for server issues Criticals would be calculated once. I really don't think they did that because they where lazy or overlooked it. I would speculate that they made the decision to do it that way because not doing that way would be a massive load on the server.
(Consider that other Developers in the industry... almost always design systems where DOT dmg doesn't crit roll at all... there is a reason for that and its not just balance)

Bort mentioned he was asking systems about it awhile back... and he has been quite on it since. I would bet Systems told him it wasn't going to happen unless he could talk PWE into tripling the STO server farm.
Ive got nothing against the chain crits...i think they are awesome. its just that 95% of the time that it what people seem to complain about

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 100
03-20-2013, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post

Counters include but are not limited to...
*snip*
They are all valid counters, but keep in mind how many of those can a ship have equipped at once, consider their cooldown, and calculate how many counters can be thrown out before a ship finally runs out of counters. This might be a non-issue if the cluster torp cd stayed at its native level of 45 sec, BUT .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
The issue isn't that people can slot more then one... the issue (as you see it, I think.. the cluster spam) is that doffs reduce there cool down. I can keep on breen cluster at global (which is 15s on the cluster) with only one and torp doffs.
BINGO

Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
The crit chain exists in the game for a reason... long ago other Cryptic Developers (that designed the bones of the engine STO works on)... decided that for server issues Criticals would be calculated once. .... I would speculate that they made the decision to do it that way because not doing that way would be a massive load on the server.
(Consider that other Developers in the industry... almost always design systems where DOT dmg doesn't crit roll at all... there is a reason for that and its not just balance)
So why not normalize the crits instead? If its computationally cheaper to calculate a crit chance once then implement it on all the spams at once, at least take precaution to calculate how many spams the crit effects and normalize the crit damage accordingly. Wouldn't that be the best solution? After all, there are 10 mines that a breen cluster torp spews out. Even a 4k bleedthrough damage per mine in a crit is a total of 40k bleedthrough damage. And nobody needs special skills for this to happen, they just need to be lucky. And even that luck can be bent to favor the shooter, what with all the crit chances that can be stacked these days.

Last edited by pokersmith1; 03-20-2013 at 10:05 PM.
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