Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,824
# 41
01-29-2013, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malkarris View Post
Well, that destroyed most of the respect I had for the OP.

I would like someone to explain to me exactly how the foundry missions can be an exploit. What part of the rules does the grinder violate? A direct quote please. Show me that and I will respect your position. Though I will still wonder why you didn't report it to Cryptic instead of this.

If you are upset that you think no one plays your missions because they are buried under grinders, I can respect that, but an answer would be to have Cryptic get a better search tool, or maybe for you to make a thread, have a mod sticky it, and on that thread keep the list of "good story missions." Subject to taste of course, but it would be something.
I base calling the timid creature missions an exploit on an experience we had when the Foundry first went live. Not sure how much I should say about it since you're not supposed to post exploit techniques, but suffice it to say you got mountains of XP for sitting in one place and doing nothing. Cryptic squashed that one. This is similar and they should have a consistent policy. That's up to them though.

As for a list of "good story missions" check out http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=286621

It isn't categorized other than by faction, which is maybe something we should look into, but most of the missions have had good reviews from videocasts, podcasts, in-depth text reviewers, etc.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for. Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 513
# 42
01-29-2013, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
I base calling the timid creature missions an exploit on an experience we had when the Foundry first went live. Not sure how much I should say about it since you're not supposed to post exploit techniques, but suffice it to say you got mountains of XP for sitting in one place and doing nothing. Cryptic squashed that one. This is similar and they should have a consistent policy. That's up to them though.
And their fix still stands: You only get so much XP and loot from a foundry mission per day. After that you get nothing.

Cryptic already has it worked out. This is just about vengeance and hurt feelings.

And without these missions, Stahl wouldn't be able to brag about increased player activity. Season 7 damn near killed this game. Grinders (mostly) fixed it.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 766
# 43
01-29-2013, 09:19 AM
Ah, I loved reasoned discussions. Seriously, no joking.

To the point of the exploit, I would agree with you, if the game mechanics had stayed the same. However, thanks to the DOFF system you can "sit in one place and do nothing" and get rewarded for it. I would venture to say you could probably earn about the same amount of rewards as a grinder through the DOFF system for about the same amount of clicking, if you sit in the right place. It might take a bit longer to cash out, since you would have to sell stuff on the exchange rather than to a vendor, but actually doing clicky work, about the same. Of course, this is me going on my own experience.

Also honestly, the rewards are not huge, compared to other sources for similar work. For instance, I have 9 characters. Assuming that I run all of them through the grinder every day and max out the drops for EC. Lets take an earlier estimate of 500K per character. That is 4.5 million per day total, and assuming I had all tacs with maxed out gear, so that it takes me about 5 minutes each, I'd be done in 45 minutes. On the other hand, there is the childrens toys assignment, that gives me a powered artifact which goes pretty easliy for about 1.5 million, given the last high price I saw. So I fly around Cardy space find the mission and get all my characters to take it. Eight hours later (two missions per) I sell out and get around 13.5 million total, or about 4.5 million per day (since I have to wait three days for the mission to come around again). Again, probably about 45 minutes of actual clicking, and well withen the 20 hour cool down on loot drops. So about the same between the two time and effort wise, for about the same EC amount. Of course your milage may very depending of the kinds of drops you get, or what the market is doing that day. Maybe I'll run some tests and find out, might be interesting.

But to sum up, if there is no actual rule, I would again say go to Cryptic and say, I think this is an exploit, fix it. It might be your job to report, but it is their job to fix it.

As for that list, it looks like a good one, why don't you guys get together and pester branflakes to give you guys a guest blog. I mean, if PvP and Epohh tagging (now there's an exploit) gets one, somehting you guys and gals should think about.
Joined September 2011
Nouveau riche LTS member
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,660
# 44
01-29-2013, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomictiki View Post
And their fix still stands: You only get so much XP and loot from a foundry mission per day. After that you get nothing.

Cryptic already has it worked out. This is just about vengeance and hurt feelings.
To a certain extent yes..... But... the dispute is about a flaw in the way Founddry rewards work.
Quote:
And without these missions, Stahl wouldn't be able to brag about increased player activity. Season 7 damn near killed this game. Grinders (mostly) fixed it.
No it didn't..... It was a huge shakeup, but most people have continued business as usual. Grinders...... have never fixed anything. they just make it easier for people to get stuff.

Anyways, the real solution is to finally ditch the foundry wrapper and give missions scaled rewards based on what you do in the mission. (ands make it so you don't get loot from timid Creature 'enemies')
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 45
01-29-2013, 10:25 AM
I don't think this is a problem with the IOR requirements, I think its a problem with players being able to win anything by going AFK, whether it be Foundry Missions, or STFs, or whatever.

The requirements for IOR don't need to be messed around with any further, what Cryptic needs to do is come up with a solution that prevents people from gaining loot and mission rewards while being AFK the whole time.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,824
# 46
01-29-2013, 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malkarris View Post
Ah, I loved reasoned discussions. Seriously, no joking.
No argument here

Quote:
Originally Posted by malkarris View Post
To the point of the exploit, I would agree with you, if the game mechanics had stayed the same. However, thanks to the DOFF system you can "sit in one place and do nothing" and get rewarded for it. I would venture to say you could probably earn about the same amount of rewards as a grinder through the DOFF system for about the same amount of clicking, if you sit in the right place. It might take a bit longer to cash out, since you would have to sell stuff on the exchange rather than to a vendor, but actually doing clicky work, about the same. Of course, this is me going on my own experience.
You're right the DOFF system does throw a bit of a wrench into the "getting something for nothing = exploit" definition. But I think I'd say that the DOFF system is a Cryptic-created system and thus not an exploit and they will need to make a ruling on whether this use of the Foundry constitutes something they approve of or not, which we are told they are working on. I hope they make a definitive ruling one way or the other, rather than let it go on so long with not a word that it seems like tacit approval.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malkarris View Post
As for that list, it looks like a good one, why don't you guys get together and pester branflakes to give you guys a guest blog. I mean, if PvP and Epohh tagging (now there's an exploit) gets one, somehting you guys and gals should think about.
We did have one, written by Cerberusfilms, but it has been quite a while now.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for. Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 513
# 47
01-29-2013, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamiyama317 View Post
I don't think this is a problem with the IOR requirements, I think its a problem with players being able to win anything by going AFK, whether it be Foundry Missions, or STFs, or whatever.

The requirements for IOR don't need to be messed around with any further, what Cryptic needs to do is come up with a solution that prevents people from gaining loot and mission rewards while being AFK the whole time.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter how rewards are gained. Stahl was very clear that they're looking at TIME as their factor for rewards. They want people logged in. And as long as time is spent, there really is no problem. If you find it offensive, don't do it. Because I'm sure if you really want to make it a personal taste issue, someone,somewhere can find something offensive about how you decide to play a game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 513
# 48
01-29-2013, 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
You're right the DOFF system does throw a bit of a wrench into the "getting something for nothing = exploit" definition. But I think I'd say that the DOFF system is a Cryptic-created system and thus not an exploit and they will need to make a ruling on whether this use of the Foundry constitutes something they approve of or not, which we are told they are working on. I hope they make a definitive ruling one way or the other, rather than let it go on so long with not a word that it seems like tacit approval.
I'd like to know how the Foundry is not a Cryptic-created system.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,824
# 49
01-29-2013, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomictiki View Post
I'd like to know how the Foundry is not a Cryptic-created system.
It is. But players often find ways of using dev-created systems in ways that were never intended. It falls to the devs to decide whether these ways are exploits or are permissible. That's part of the evolving structure of MMOs, or most games really. I think we're lucky that Cryptic does not seem to go nuts with the ban hammer over exploits like some other gaming companies.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for. Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 50
01-29-2013, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by collegepark2151 View Post
Then Cryptic should do the wise thing and not call this an exploit. That's what grinds my gears about it, aside from the egotistical foundry authors. I remember when the dilithium clickers hit the fan one of the devs, maybe even the head dev said something along the lines of "we don't want it played like that". Really burned me up to hear that. If it was what people wanted, then they should have accommodated the playerbase.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that since the chosen few are raising holy heck about this it will be nerfed into oblivion soon enough and we will have to grind away in the "proper" manner. I'm through feeling like a "villain" by doing something that I would imagine the great majority of the playerbase is doing, though.

I too think the OP's idea is pretty goofy and ridiculous, and heck, I even made a "short-story" grinder mission myself, but the missions where you simply accept the mission and walk away should not qualify.

I think the majority of the Foundry authors you've seen ranting, even those not ranting like myself, just want them seperated as they are putting the unknown and newer missions out of the main menu, basically clouding the foundry for newer authors. I am a lucky one as I have a spotlight mission as well, but I have seen countless friends give up trying to use the Foundry because they do not show up in the list without searching for the name or title. Unfortunately, unless you are seen or are a familiar foundry face, you get ignored.

A combat mission option and a story-based mission option is what most of us desire, not to remove the grinders. But come on, a mission called "EC Farming" is not Star Trek, which regardless of how much grinding the game requires (and I myself do), it is still Star Trek. It was not designed to blow up defenseless, timid ships to collect loot. Maybe that game should be called Space Pirates Online or something else.
ABI-Artificial Borg Intelligence by Duke-of-Rock Available on Holodeck
Also play Spawn of Medusa - The 5 Part series
by Duke-of-Rock Available on Holodeck
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:39 PM.