Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 21
01-29-2013, 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
How many of those have you faced in PvP yet? Can you imagine how these beasts could strike if the beams were not as underwhelming as they currently are?
Nope. Beams are inferior, beams stay inferior. Why? Because your flying bricks aren't supposed to be damage dealers - they're supposed to be flying bricks - and they are - no changes needed.

He's dead, Jim.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,987
# 22
01-29-2013, 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
Nope. Beams are inferior, beams stay inferior. Why? Because your flying bricks aren't supposed to be damage dealers - they're supposed to be flying bricks - and they are - no changes needed.
Well, mimey has explained that he was actually not talking about what I understood, so this is probably a bit pointless to discuss, but...

Dude, seriously. Look at the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought's stats.
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 23
01-29-2013, 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Well, mimey has explained that he was actually not talking about what I understood, so this is probably a bit pointless to discuss, but...

Dude, seriously. Look at the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought's stats.
I'm fine with Dreadnoughts. What annoys me is people going "baaaaw buff beam arrays and turn so my brick can do escort lvl dmg".
What do you want me to look at its stats for? I looked at them at some point.

He's dead, Jim.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,987
# 24
01-29-2013, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
I'm fine with Dreadnoughts. What annoys me is people going "baaaaw buff beam arrays and turn so my brick can do escort lvl dmg".
Nobody was talking about turn. And beam arrays are too weak, which you can easily find out by equipping them on your escort.

Quote:
What do you want me to look at its stats for? I looked at them at some point.
What do you think the boff layout and the console layout of the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought are intended for?
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 25
01-29-2013, 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Nobody was talking about turn. And beam arrays are too weak, which you can easily find out by equipping them on your escort.
Yeah, I added turn because it's a common request as part of the argument to buff brick damage - not because it was mentioned here. The second statement was rather general, citing the kind of argument that I have a problem with and feel has little to do with Dreadnoughts themselves (as in the OP).
The latter part of your argument is irrelevant. Most of the time putting beams on an Escort is a mistake. It has no practical basis. Escorts are literally built for cannons.
How about you put DHCs on your brick and compare damage to beams?
Damn straight, odds are you do more damage with beams because you have trouble keeping the DHCs on target.
Does this mean Beams are better than DHCs? No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
What do you think the boff layout and the console layout of the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought are intended for?
I expected this reply. It's not an argument. Ever looked at a Battlecruiser?
Just because a ship can do something doesn't mean it's supposed to excell in it.
Your argument also totally disregards the matter of the captains class - which is as important as the ship itself.
In any case: The Dreads anything allows no conclusions about beam arrays.
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought is a fine ship.

He's dead, Jim.

Last edited by lolimpicard; 01-29-2013 at 07:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,194
# 26
01-29-2013, 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
I think Cryptic have all but confirmed that the Jupiter will not be added anytime soon, if at all. I think it's time they threw the Jupiter model in the junk heap and used the Odyssey for all Federation npc flagship instances.
Agreed. If it's not gonna be playable, replace them all with either Odysseys or Gal-Xs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmallm View Post
I noticed the Jupiter class is rarely shown on the game now. Used to I would catch a few of them here and there in the cut scenes or have to blow one up with my KDF. I mostly see the typhoons as the bigger ship the Feds send to my KDF for fodder. The other day I even saw a Galaxy X Dreadnought in a cut scene. Which is the first time I ever saw it as a NPC form. Also I did happen to catch a few of the Odyssey in action. Which I never really saw much of before either.
All the named flagships in "Fleet Alert" are Jupiter Dreadnoughts. So they're not as obsolete as you'd think.
Please fix the Foundry lag!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,946
# 27
01-29-2013, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
What annoys me is people going "baaaaw buff beam arrays and turn so my brick can do escort lvl dmg".
Kind of like some people are annoyed seeing an Escort capable of doing more damage than a Battleship... yep, different folks are annoyed by different things. Some based on reality...some based nowhere near reality.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,987
# 28
01-29-2013, 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolimpicard View Post
[...]The Dreads anything allows no conclusions about beam arrays.
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought is a fine ship.
So, what would you do with it? What would be your preferred Jem'Hadar Dreadnought build?
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 29
01-29-2013, 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Kind of like some people are annoyed seeing an Escort capable of doing more damage than a Battleship... yep, different folks are annoyed by different things. Some based on reality...some based nowhere near reality.
Hmhmm, not trying to derail the threat further (really, I was complaining about the derailment-through-beam-complains in the first place).
I can understand some frustration about the Battleship, but it certainly has the capabilities to outlast the Escort in many ways, lasting through fights the Escort blows up and hence, in the final analysis, dealing more damage due to being dead less often.
I feel Escorts certainly should excell at dealing damage. If anything I feel the survivability of a well played Escort might be too high.
Of course nerfing on one end and buffing on the other has similar results.

He's dead, Jim.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 30
01-29-2013, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
So, what would you do with it? What would be your preferred Jem'Hadar Dreadnought build?
Fair question. I did not investigate this much, because all my captains are very specialized with the ships they already have, but my general feeling about it would be "like a Battlecruiser" (at least in regards to BOff abilities).

Probably Engineering Captain.
Tac doesn't buff pets, so it's not as good as usual and Engineer helps significantly with system power and tanking - but at a cost of some personal damage dealing capacity (don't forget the system power buff and nadion inversion , tho)

Regarding weapons: It seems rather versatile.
Ordinary cannons actually exist and they work fine - of course a beam build should be fine, too.
From my personal carrier experience the kinetic weapon part is a bit tricky, tho.
The ship seems capable enough to do the point blank approach of rushing in, dropping mines big time, eject warp plasma and tanking it like a mofo, altho that's a bit clumpsy with a carrier (from my experience).
But I'd definitely do some experimenting with some mine patterns et cetera - since there is potential.

Some general classification ramblings:
I feel it's a lot like a battlecruiser - and, well, the pets always add dps - but personally I feel it doesn't really make the ship using them a damage-dealer per so.
Of course many carriers are science-heavy, which is not true with the Jemmy Dread and not totally true with the Kar'Fi (the latter of which I have).
I might be willing to aggree that they both could be considered damage dealers, one more focused on tanking, the other on science, but in their class they are the exception to their rule (the class of "bricks", altho they actually are "bricks with pets").

He's dead, Jim.

Last edited by lolimpicard; 01-29-2013 at 08:15 AM.
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