Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 151
01-30-2013, 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
A quick parting note: It's actually more useful to us Devs if the posts that you guys make focus on the particular balance concern you have, detailing why you consider it an issue, and stay away from recommending fixes.

Hi Bort,

Just throwing this out there, but perhaps the best way to approach this kind of crowd sourcing would be for you or someone on the team to create a simple template for the kind of things that are most helpful for balance/bug feedback.


With a template like that in place, the next best thing would be away for other posters to support or disagree with said issue that player has brought up (if only the forums had a google +1 type feature).



There is a lot of good feedback from a lot of very knowledgeable players but ultimately we are all going to have a wide variety of opinions on the balance scale and I wonder if for you it comes across as a poor signal to noise ratio.

Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 152
01-30-2013, 09:23 PM
best template for this.

Skill or Ship:

Skill problem:

Ways to improve it:



while staying consstructive.

-Spells

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Fleet Leader

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 815
# 153
01-30-2013, 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
A quick parting note: It's actually more useful to us Devs if the posts that you guys make focus on the particular balance concern you have, detailing why you consider it an issue, and stay away from recommending fixes. While many of you have fine ideas about repairing some of the concerns the community raises, there exists a tendency to skip to the "You can fix X by doing Y" part of leaving feedback, without first explaining to us why you feel X needs to be fixed to begin with.
Thanks for taking the time bort.

With the above said I'll restate my issue with DEM just to make sure the problem is understood and put it in a nice format for you.
I'm coming at this from an engineering captains perspective in an engy heavy cruiser. So Star Cruisers/Neg'vars and the like.

The Skill
Directed Energy Modulation

The Problem
DEM damage/penetration/bleed through, what ever you'd like to call it is in my experience by far not enough these days to warrant it's use by cruisers running beams. That and the cool down is 90s vs a 30s up time. Too long a down time.

It's great with the new doff that increases weapons power drain resistance, but that's the only reason to slot it.

Expanding on issue
Cruisers that can slot DEM2 and especially DEM3 have limited tac slots and typically are running with just regular beam arrays. In PvP they've no chance of getting through shields via brute force. I see DEM as a viable bypass shields option but it's just not effective even versus the weakest hulled bops as its penetration damage appears to be based off an archaic weapons power setting with fixed values and not actual weapons damage values shown in tooltips. ~40 damage per pulse is not useful, that's laughable.

Possible solution
A possible fix would be to give it x% bleed through values. Like maybe 40% energy weapons damage bleed through for DEM3. 20% for DEM2 and 10% for DEM1. Stack it so cruisers benefit from it more as they've limited tac abilities. Destroyer type class ships or HEC's and JHAS etc have access to DEM2 so it's the hard one to place, but DEM3 is squarely in the "I have little tac options" arena and should have it's biggest boost in that slot.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 154
01-30-2013, 10:22 PM
I think the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit and the Fleet verson are weak and underpowered in pvp. It does the weakest damage of any endgame cruiser. There are already better support cruisers like the Star Cruiser (and the upcoming Ambassador Class), and better tactical cruisers like the Advanced Heavy Cruiser and the Assault Cruiser. The Exploration Cruiser retrofit also turns slower than every other ship in the game that is not a carrier. To make it turn faster, you have to sacrifice a console slot and lose the ability to take damage.

The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit does nothing that those other ships can't do better. It is not versatile enough in its bridge officer stations or its consoles to be of any value except as a pure tank. In PvP, the tank can be effectively ignored for the entire fight.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,541
# 155
01-30-2013, 10:49 PM
Power Inconsistency vs. slot location.

There are a few bridge officer powers that have better versions in the same slot. This is mostly a problem with Commander based powers:

Gravity Well
Attack Pattern Omega
Aceton Beam
Eject Warp Plasma
Viral Matrix
Photonic Shockwave

Each of the above powers are commander slot II and III. Why even use a II if you can just find a Bridge officer, or friendly player willing to train the version III of the power?

Another issue, is with powers being TOO powerful for their slot.
Powers like:

Polarized hull
Attack Pattern Omega
Tactical Team
Tractor Beam
Emergency power to Weapons
Emergency power to Engines
Emergency power to Aux
Science Team
Engineering Team
Hazard Emitters

Each of the powers listed above (With the exception partly of Science and Engineering teams) are all that's needed in an Ensign slot. Either their ability completely neutralize another, or an effect from that power, such as Science, Tactical, or Engineering team, completely defends against powers they can defend against. Such examples are, but not limited to:

Polarized hull 1 can defend against ANY Incoming Tractor beam. Same goes for Attack Pattern Omega 1
Tractor Beam, except vs. a target protecting themselves with the above counters, can hold any target.
Science team 1 can clear ANY Clearable debuff Regardless of how powerful it is.
Engineering Team 1 can clear any Disable regardless to how powerful it is.
Tactical team can clear any offensive debuff or disable regardless to how powerful it is.
An Emergency Power to Engines or Aux can provide a full clear vs a Disabled System regardless to how powerful the attack was. And Emergency power to engines I provides nearly all the speed boost needed from Emergency power to Engines.

I would expect Powers to be able to counter only powers of Equal or Lesser rank/slot to themselves. Or at least provide a reduced counter of some fashion.
For example:
Jam Sensors 3 or Scramble Sensors 3 should not be cleared by Science team 1, but a Science team 3 could auto clear it (if they don't break it themselves with Damage done)
A Tactical Team 1 Should not be able to defend against a Boarding Party 3.
An Engineering team 1 should not be enough to clear a Viral Matrix 3
An Emergency power to X 1 should not be a defense against a Target Subsystem: X 3

And finally I have to question..
Why is there a Dispersal Pattern Beta 3, but there is no Dispersal Pattern Alpha 3?
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,277
# 156
01-30-2013, 10:59 PM
The Issue
Weapon Power Drain Mechanic

The Problem
Dual Heavy Cannons out perform all other weapons by a massive amount especially when many weapons are equiped. This is because they only fire one shot per cycle allowing each shot to get the highest possible weapon power bonus to damage. All other cannons fire two shots per cycle and only half are at highest potential, and finally all beams fire four per cycle forcing three quarters of the shots to be at a low bonus.

Expanding on issue
This literally makes Dual Cannons worthless beyond being a trap to those who do not know. In addition it skews the performance of beam weaponry making them understandable on any ship unless you are unable to use the superior cannons for whatever reason. I realize that several things have been added to alleviate this problem but they are insificant for more reasons than I care to get into at the moment other than gaining drain resistance does improve beam damage by a greater % but still not by enough for them to compete against the Dual Heavies who do get an increase in damage output from them as well.

Possible solution
I don't care. Several potential options would be:

- Double beam damage per hit, reduce number of shots per cycle to two. This would require a Beam Overload adjustment.
- Decrease beam drain a tad.
- Introduce an efficient rear only beam similar to turrets that are more efficient
- Introduce a Heavy front only beam similar to DHCs that fire fewer shots per cycle but can broadside
- Add a boff ability (preferably engineering) that reduces weapon drain with significant up time.
- Increase accuracy of Beams, and/or further reduce their damage penalty at long ranges.
- Allow all ships to equip Dual Heavy Cannons and bump up turn rates by 2 (this is sarcasm).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 157
01-30-2013, 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I've compiled the feedback from this thread into a little "For Review" list for myself that's sitting on my Desktop for those rare occasions that I have spare cycles to work on it.

While I don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion on many of the points until I've had time to perform more thorough investigations, I can still comment on a few quick points of concern.

1) Photonic Shockwave Torpedo is benefiting from Photonic Studies doffs.

This is a bug, and I just checked in a fix for it. Thanks for pointing it out!

2) Lunge+Pounce should share a cooldown.

I absolutely agree, and this will happen. While there are additional concerns with Caitian/Ferasan racial Traits, this particular bullet point is easily addressed.

----

That's all I have for now, other than acknowledging the rest of your feedback, but there are too many individual bullet points to call out one-by-one. Thanks for keeping this thread constructive!

A quick parting note: It's actually more useful to us Devs if the posts that you guys make focus on the particular balance concern you have, detailing why you consider it an issue, and stay away from recommending fixes. While many of you have fine ideas about repairing some of the concerns the community raises, there exists a tendency to skip to the "You can fix X by doing Y" part of leaving feedback, without first explaining to us why you feel X needs to be fixed to begin with.
Regarding Photonic Doffs, I believe it was at some point the intent of Photonic Doffs to reduce the cooldown of the PSW Torp Console. Iirc there was a patch that did this. Personally, I'm fine w/it being removed, but you may get some pushback from others.

Also, I had an early post that brough up a couple of other things imo that are broken ie not working as intended.

The 1st is for @ least the KDF Vet console (not sure of Fed side) Aux2batt reduces the cooldown of the shield vamp ability.

The 2nd is the KDF Vet console can become stuck in one mode after being struck by trics. This reminds me of the old problem of weapons being stuck if hit by trics mid cycle.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 158
01-30-2013, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
2) Lunge+Pounce should share a cooldown.

I absolutely agree, and this will happen. While there are additional concerns with Caitian/Ferasan racial Traits, this particular bullet point is easily addressed.
So let get this ...

Operate Kit is now WORTHLESS if you are using a Caitain/Ferasan?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 159
01-30-2013, 11:17 PM
I think it would be best, if Bort would just pick some of the most discussed/report thread here and make separate thread. One by One.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 160
01-30-2013, 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Another issue, is with powers being TOO powerful for their slot.
Powers like:

Polarized hull
Attack Pattern Omega
Tactical Team
Tractor Beam
Emergency power to Weapons
Emergency power to Engines
Emergency power to Aux
Science Team
Engineering Team
Hazard Emitters

Each of the powers listed above (With the exception partly of Science and Engineering teams) are all that's needed in an Ensign slot.
APO starts at Ltc, I'm sure that was just an oversight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Either their ability completely neutralize another, or an effect from that power, such as Science, Tactical, or Engineering team, completely defends against powers they can defend against.
I think that's entirely the point of the design.

What you're suggesting would see Engisn slots become basically pointless for clearing anything that would in reality be used against you and would then force ships to sacrifice higher tier performance powers just to be able to clear debilitating effects.

While that might sound balanced in a "tit for tat" kind of design, I personally think it would veer into "unfun" territory where you have to slot cleanses to debuffs in the very few, precious higher tier slots you get (a total of 3 out of 12 powers for most ships).

A better direction might be to have partial cleanses vs. the fairly binary off/on design of debuffs and cleanses we have now, but I think that ship has probably set sail a long time ago.

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