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Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 27
# 51
01-31-2013, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
They should simply make beam weapons not lose damage regardless of range and make cannons only do max damage under 2km range.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but beams already do not have a damage fall-off due to range, while cannons do.

Currently the effective range of cannons and turrets is 4km and under. You can spot newbies in STFs - just see who's sitting in their escorts 9.9km away from targets; they might as well be throwing rocks at that distance.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,798
# 52
01-31-2013, 09:40 AM
This isn't Star Trek as it is on the TV. On the TV a cruiser is like a city with amazing resources at its disposal. Science labs, engineering departments and the means with which to aid planets in distress. An escort, like the Defiant, goes in and hits hard. No real room for an infirmary. No means to prevent a moon with a decaying orbit from hitting a planet.

When you go in to an STF, all the labs in the world don't matter. It's hitting power, thus escorts rule this game as nothing can put out damage like an escort. What properly built Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit can match the raw destructive power of a properly built JHAS? As the game mostly focuses on DPS (and whilst the Tactical captain abilities boost the damage of everything, including science powers) it's clear that tac is the golden child of this game.

I don't agree with this mentality. Maybe for the Klinks, but NOT for the Federation.

As we've seen on the TV series, the bridge of the Enterprise is larger than the bridge of the Voyager which is larger than the bridge of the Defiant. Why hasn't this translated in to more BOff slots for the larger ships? The Enterprise has a huge Medical area and the Defiant has almost nothing. Why don't the crew of cruisers heal at a far more rapid rate? We've seen the warp core size difference between the Enterprise and Voyager. Why does a cruiser not add more bonus points of energy?

Yes, escorts should always hit harder. That's they're job. Cruisers, however, have so many advantages that are just not shown in the game.


I really think PWE needs to address this balance. It's Star Trek Online, not Escorts Online.

(Now we see the escort fan-boys cry foul...)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,243
# 53
01-31-2013, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
As we've seen on the TV series, the bridge of the Enterprise is larger than the bridge of the Voyager which is larger than the bridge of the Defiant. Why hasn't this translated in to more BOff slots for the larger ships? The Enterprise has a huge Medical area and the Defiant has almost nothing. Why don't the crew of cruisers heal at a far more rapid rate? We've seen the warp core size difference between the Enterprise and Voyager. Why does a cruiser not add more bonus points of energy?

Yes, escorts should always hit harder. That's they're job. Cruisers, however, have so many advantages that are just not shown in the game.


I really think PWE needs to address this balance. It's Star Trek Online, not Escorts Online.

(Now we see the escort fan-boys cry foul...)
I 100% agree with you.
the differences wouldn't be so blatant if cruisers had more other uses, or abilities.

Since i started playing i have been wondering, why cruisers dont get much more Engergy for it's subsystems. They don't even get more BOFF slots or even DOFF slots...
If you look at it from that perspective i think Cryptic made Star Trek ships too equal.
I'm not saying escorts shouldn't get any advantage but compared to a 10x bigger ship which has way more resources, escorts are way too strong. They should be specialists on one field, but not being able to stand toe on toe with cruisers.

And yeah, escort lobbyists are already incoming.

If i where to make a Star Trek online game, i would have made the biggest=strongest ships availlable at a certain accolade score. (lets say 7000 or 8000, depending on the ship)
Everything below would be specialised ships like Science or Escorts.


I still absolutely hate the Ambassador and Galaxy class BOFF layout.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
# 54
01-31-2013, 10:44 AM
New assault Cruiser Retrofit has a 180* quantum Launcher !!!!!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 697
# 55
01-31-2013, 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
We've seen the warp core size difference between the Enterprise and Voyager. Why does a cruiser not add more bonus points of energy?
I've already addressed this, all the way back on page 1 (or 2, depending on your forum preferences):

Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
I'm on my cell phone, and therefore cannot type a long detailed reply. I do have some quick thoughts to leave, though.

The best forms of power generation increase exponentially - as physical space increases, power generation increases by a factor of 2. This is true with nuclear power, and would be true with any other form of power generated at the atomic or subatomic level.

Energy fields, meanwhile, work differently. As the size of the field increases, the power required to generate it increases GEOMETRICALLY, or by a factor of 3.

It actually makes more scientific sense for a smaller ship with energy weapons and energy shields to deal more damage (and have more shielding) than a larger ship with energy weapons and energy shields. The power generation-to-power consumption ratio will always favor the small ship.

In STO, we only see this in the form of escorts having higher damage. Cruisers still get better defenses in the form of better shield modifiers, more hull points, and a much larger selection of heals.
Conveniently, no one has tried to address this. It's funny how, when you bring actual science into play, the "cruiser godship" raving lunatics suddenly go silent...

It's also funny how, when you bring up the necessities of game design, those same raving lunatics try to side-step the issue. If we really copy on-screen references, the Galaxy class would be even more worthless than it currently is, doing nothing more than taking a beating in every encounter, the Sovereign class will be akin to an escort, but with beams, the Defiant class will blow everything up in 2 shots, and the Intrepid class will constantly run away from a fight. Ironically, the in-game representation isn't all that far off the mark, now that I've reduced it to such simple descriptions.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,858
# 56
01-31-2013, 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yreodred View Post
I still absolutely hate the Ambassador and Galaxy class BOFF layout.[/color][/font]
What's wrong with the Ambassador (other than "It's not a Galaxy")?
Tacofangs is (genuinely) the best dev ever and the forumites adore him
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
# 57
01-31-2013, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
Yet another in a long line of "nerf escorts, buff cruisers" threads. At least you didn't hide from the fact that you're asking for increased damage output without a corresponding decrease in defense, healing, or other measurable statistic that matters in combat.

To you, I say "good try", but I won't actually ridicule you because you were at least open and honest with your "super cruiser" request.
if that's what you want, I say Okay!...make my fleet escort a tank like a cruiser, I give up walls for arrows..lol but good discussion question. ( I hope my escort see's you in space, lol)
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
# 58
01-31-2013, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
This isn't Star Trek as it is on the TV. On the TV a cruiser is like a city with amazing resources at its disposal. Science labs, engineering departments and the means with which to aid planets in distress. An escort, like the Defiant, goes in and hits hard. No real room for an infirmary. No means to prevent a moon with a decaying orbit from hitting a planet.

When you go in to an STF, all the labs in the world don't matter. It's hitting power, thus escorts rule this game as nothing can put out damage like an escort. What properly built Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit can match the raw destructive power of a properly built JHAS? As the game mostly focuses on DPS (and whilst the Tactical captain abilities boost the damage of everything, including science powers) it's clear that tac is the golden child of this game.

I don't agree with this mentality. Maybe for the Klinks, but NOT for the Federation.

As we've seen on the TV series, the bridge of the Enterprise is larger than the bridge of the Voyager which is larger than the bridge of the Defiant. Why hasn't this translated in to more BOff slots for the larger ships? The Enterprise has a huge Medical area and the Defiant has almost nothing. Why don't the crew of cruisers heal at a far more rapid rate? We've seen the warp core size difference between the Enterprise and Voyager. Why does a cruiser not add more bonus points of energy?

Yes, escorts should always hit harder. That's they're job. Cruisers, however, have so many advantages that are just not shown in the game.


I really think PWE needs to address this balance. It's Star Trek Online, not Escorts Online.

(Now we see the escort fan-boys cry foul...)

Make my escort a TANK, like a cruiser and I say okay, make em even. I give up walls for arrows,
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,798
# 59
01-31-2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
Conveniently, no one has tried to address this. It's funny how, when you bring actual science into play, the "cruiser godship" raving lunatics suddenly go silent...
Applying modern science to argue your point of view in a fictional AND future arena? Isn't that like Alessandro Volta arguing with his peers as to how a smartphone works?

I don't want a godship. I want a game that focuses on combat to have all tiers on a level playing field. That's not wanting an unfair advantage. That's wanting balance. Something the tac fanboys don't understand.
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8
# 60
01-31-2013, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by velsieg View Post
New assault Cruiser Retrofit has a 180* quantum Launcher !!!!!
you are right, Make an escort (like my fleet escort) a tank like your cruisers and I am all in, we give up walls for arrows, go to PvP and attack a KDF cruiser with an escort, see how even they are on the defense thing...lol
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