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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,598
# 51
02-01-2013, 08:32 AM
That's kind of the thing - the toon's built to tank - he's an Eng - hence the reason he was in the Mirror Vor'cha to begin with - for it's increased tankiness. It actually felt OP at times how well it could tank.

I think I felt the most hit from the loss of crew. Many folks underestimate the value of crew in sustained tanking builds. That additional hull regen you get even in combat can make a difference. Yes, it's percentage based - but based on the way crew loss is handled, it takes far longer for that percentage to drop with a large crew than a smaller crew. Yes, Theta renders that discussion moot - but NPCs don't drop Theta.

With x/25 Eng Power in either the Mirror Vor'cha or the Kamarag, I can hit the 70% Bonus Defense base cap before any abilities that would have boosted it to that or beyond. Turn in the Mirror Vor'cha is 19.7 while in the Kamarag it's 20.9. Hull dropped from either 47.7k to 46.3k or 46.7k to 45.3k (can't remember without looking, but it was a ~1.4k drop).

The build in the Mirror Vor'cha:
TS1, APB1
EPtS1, AtS1, RSP2, EWP2 (should be 3, I know)
EPtA1, ET1, AB1
TSS1, HE2
PH1


The build in the Kamarag:
TS1, APB1
TT1

EPtS1, AtS1, RSP2, EWP2 (should be 3, I know)
EPtA1, ET1
PH1, HE2, TSS3

With the captain being an Eng, there would also be: Nadion Inversion, Rotate Shield Frequency, EPS Power Transfer, Miracle Worker, and Engineering Fleet.

It's that combination of the fewer crew and less hull that's causing a double hit/double whammy.

With things that disable/kill crew, it's a "Lesser of X or Y" - where for the most part, it's going to be that static number until you reach the lower numbers of crew where it's the percentage.

So you take 1500 crew and subtract that static number.
So you take 700 crew and subtract that static number.

You're going to feel that more on the 700 crew than the 1500 crew. Your overall percentage of crew is going to remain higher longer starting with 1500 crew. You're going to get that much more hull regen for that much longer starting with 1500 crew.

Going from 1500 to 700 while also losing 1.4k hull... is very noticeable. Something like that should be even more noticeable going from a Negh'Var to a Kamarag where you're losing 1800 crew and base 4k hull.

Compare that to somebody going from a Sovereign to the Ambassador because they preferred the BOFF layout. Going from 800 crew to 700's not going to be anywhere near as noticeable...and...they actually picked up 500 hull. They also get the arguable benefit of going from the LCdr Eng Lt Sci to Lt Eng LCdr Sci.

I was somewhat pleasantly surprised with the Ambassador.
I was "WTF where's mah hull?" with the Kamarag.

No doubt I could keep the shields up better in the Kamarag with the TT1, TSS3 instead of TSS1, and even the better turn rate...but the hull was just disintegrating while doing so over the course of any extended fighting/encounters just from bleedthrough.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 752
# 52
02-01-2013, 11:24 AM
well, the Kamarag can't be used to skin a Fleet K't'inga retrofit. Any one find is a s skin for any of the Fleet Vorcha's, or the Tor'kant by any chance?


If not, maybe we can look forward to a fleet refit/retrofit version.
Release 8.5 "STO The Next Generation"

Let the happy old bug stomping commence, along with refinement toward enhancing each factions play experience!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,003
# 53
02-01-2013, 11:27 AM
Hm, interesting.

I definitely agree on most of your points, and in prolonged fights it did indeed start to be more noticable, but I still wasn't suffering from melting-hull syndrome. However, I suspect my build might be a bit more defensive:

yours:
TS1, APB1
TT1

EPtS1, AtS1, RSP2, EWP2 (should be 3, I know)
EPtA1, ET1

PH1, HE2, TSS3

Mine:
TT1 (with 2 conn doffs), CRF1
TS1

EPtW1, EPtS2, DEM2, AtSIF3
EPtS1, RSP1

PH1, HE2, TSS3 (or TB1, HE2, GW1, alternatively)

I get 100% on my EPtS, including the resist buffs that gives, and the extra 19% hull damage resistance of AtSIF3 over AtSIF1. Those might explain the different experiences, I suppose.

Now that I look back at it, not all that different in focus, but just different. Your EWP is a level higher than my DEM, but those are both offensive powers. I went for RSP1 instead of 2, because it's my backup, and at that point I'm taking so much fire it'll fill all of my shields in no time anyway.

So, apart from the different levels of skills, I just run another EPtW instead of your EPtA, and another EPtS instead of your ET (which wouldn't work for me because of my chaining TT).

Other than the TT cooldown reduction doffs I'm really not running anything proper yet, on that character, so those aren't the issue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 157
# 54
02-01-2013, 01:06 PM
Here's what I'm working with right now. Seems to be doing okay. I keep wanting to go back to this guys Negh'Var though. I'm going to stick with it for awhile I think.

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/7655/karmarag1.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,484
# 55
02-01-2013, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
The Boffs are pretty similar to Vorcha. One less eng slot traded for one more Sci slot. Or were you hoping for Commander Tac? hehe.
I was hoping for some universal slots oh well.I got it for my KDF geer to supplement the Neg and Vorchas.It isn't to bad haven't tried it yet.

@tsf00181

That ship of yours gives me some ideas.What skills does your BO have?
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USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
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Last edited by age03; 02-01-2013 at 03:10 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,598
# 56
02-01-2013, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twam View Post
Mine:
TT1 (with 2 conn doffs), CRF1
TS1

EPtW1, EPtS2, DEM2, AtSIF3
EPtS1, RSP1

PH1, HE2, TSS3 (or TB1, HE2, GW1, alternatively)
Hrmm, for what I use EWP for...and it's not being buffed by either Ambiplasma nor the 2pc Harness bonus. I might give this a go later.

TT1, APB1
TS1

EPtS1, ET2, EWP1, AtS3
EPtA1, RSP1

PH1, HE2, TSS3

Hrmm, might also see if I do better with AtD1 there instead RSP1. Will have to play around with that.

Like I said, it's with the extended fights or encounters where I end up losing crew. Once that's gone, I'm finding the need to hull heal more and more - which can mean simply not having those heals available - then bam - hull feels like it's going like a can of Pringles.

No doubt, my idea of squishy is different - but I found the Vor'cha to be an amazing tank. I'll play around some more with the Kamarag, and if it doesn't work out - I'll just still with the Vor'cha.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 46
# 57
02-02-2013, 01:04 AM
I actually like it, probably a little more than my Negh'Var at the moment. Sure there's better available, but this one was free and easy to get. Looks the business too.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 429
# 58
02-02-2013, 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ooiue View Post
I like the ship, it adds another great turning Battlecruiser to our arsenal
just spent about 5 million to get it oufitted..ran Alhena right before they brought the shard down again for about the sixth time this week...the ship runs very well...turns nice!!!!! and can use cannons.....good ship!.....but PLEASE fix the problem you are having Cyptic...thid bringing down the shard everyday is getting old....is it an exploit you are trying to fix? or just a laggy game????
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 59
02-02-2013, 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by age03 View Post
@tsf00181

That ship of yours gives me some ideas.What skills does your BO have?
Take another look at the image he posted...look in the lower right corner of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 157
# 60
02-02-2013, 10:52 AM
Quote:
I was hoping for some universal slots oh well.I got it for my KDF geer to supplement the Neg and Vorchas.It isn't to bad haven't tried it yet.

@tsf00181

That ship of yours gives me some ideas.What skills does your BO have?
If that was aimed at me, here they are:

LT Tactical:
Tac Team One, Cannon Rapid 1

Ensign Tactical:
Torpedo High Yield 1

Commander Engineering:
Emergency to Shields 1, Aux to Battery 1, Emergency to Structural 2, Reverse Shield Polarity 3

LT Engineering:
Emergency to Shields 1, Aux to Battery 1

Lt Commander Science:
Hazard Emitters 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Gravity well 1

Doffs:
3x Purple Technicians
2x Projectile Weapons Officers

I'm going to switch out the Emergency to Structural 2 for Directed Energy Modulation I think, its not getting used because it shares a cool down with the Aux to Battery.

I've since adding a Borg Console and Cutting beam to the build, replacing the SIF console and rear torpedo. This guy was a new character. Plasma Torpedo is a place holder until I can get to T4 Omega for that torpedo.

I'm going to eventually replace the Projectile officers with some more defensive ones. Probably the Subsystem cooldown ones or the Auxiliary Quartermaster if I can fine them. EC is a little tight right now
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