Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 90
# 1 B'Rel torpedo boat help please
03-27-2013, 10:48 AM
Finally, all the reading about torpedo boats got the better of me and 2000 Zen were splurged! As an escort/bug player who mainly binds the lot to his space bar, it was a shock trying to get firing orders and buffs co-ordinated etc!

I tried to set it up myself, using all the info on here that I could find. It wasn't very good so, in the end, I shamelessly plagiarised everything could from cmdrskyfaller - thanks for sharing all that info!

I have earnt many thousands of DL in empire defense whilst testing/practising.

I have gone for Breen cluster, Romulan Hyper, Tricobalt and Hargh'Peng on the front and plasma mines on the rear. 2 X tax boffs. 2 X sci boffs who have SS1 and VM1 as main powers. My questions are:

1) The other rear weapon? I have some good Mk XII quantum mines, a second Breen cluster or the Omega torp. None are ready to fire after I get overhead, which doesn't seem ideal.

2) Consoles. I am not sure what are best to use. I am an F2P player who only recently re-specced my KDF character for the bug ship. It is a build that shoves everything into weapons, torpedoes, shields, hull and power. There is nothing in stealth, de-compiler etc. I do not wish to spend 500 Zen on another re-spec. Also, I will be badly specced for my Bug and other ships if I do so. With this in mind, I went for

2 X Neutronium
Assim module - mainly for the crits
Zero point module - for crits and plasma damage
2 x Stealth modules, Mk XII rare
3 X ambiplasma envelope Mk XII rare

This along with 2 piece KHG and a Tachyon Deflector Array Mk XII [PrtG] [CMS] [Ins].

You can see I am trying to make up for what is missing in my skill tree by consoles alone. Am I doing the right thing here or am I doomed?

3) I want to do my attack runs as cmdrskyfaller suggests; fire front torps in order I have listed them, dispersal III and plasma mines at 1km etc. However, I get so involved firing correctly that I am not looking at what is going on. I tried to use my programmable keyboard but it makes mistakes and slows up the sequence. I now just spam my torpedo fire button but, of course, the fastest often go first. How can I do something decent using the integral keybind function? I am familiar with how to keybind, BTW.

My goal is to use it in PVP. I am a new PVPer and realise that I am staring at a big hill whilst wondering if my legs are up to it ... I'm not much good even in the bug, lol.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,471
# 2
03-27-2013, 10:56 AM
If possible, get your hands on a Tachyokinetic Console from the Lobi store. More crit and crit severity, plus a not-insignificant boost to turn rate is nothing to sneeze at.

In addition, you haven't mentioned your Doff loadout.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 90
# 3
03-27-2013, 12:05 PM
I have the grand total of 14 lobi crystals and cannot afford 80+M EC or whatever it is in Zen to gather the lobi so that tasty console is out.

For doffs I have 3 X projectile weapons, an evasive recharge conn and a damage resistance with BFI hazard, all purple.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 4
03-28-2013, 07:43 AM
OP: there's three threads on torpedo b'rel setups in this very forum. Read them.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 392
# 5
03-28-2013, 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainretset View Post
Finally, all the reading about torpedo boats got the better of me and 2000 Zen were splurged! As an escort/bug player who mainly binds the lot to his space bar, it was a shock trying to get firing orders and buffs co-ordinated etc!

I tried to set it up myself, using all the info on here that I could find. It wasn't very good so, in the end, I shamelessly plagiarised everything could from cmdrskyfaller - thanks for sharing all that info!

I have earnt many thousands of DL in empire defense whilst testing/practising.

I have gone for Breen cluster, Romulan Hyper, Tricobalt and Hargh'Peng on the front and plasma mines on the rear. 2 X tax boffs. 2 X sci boffs who have SS1 and VM1 as main powers. My questions are:

1) The other rear weapon? I have some good Mk XII quantum mines, a second Breen cluster or the Omega torp. None are ready to fire after I get overhead, which doesn't seem ideal.

2) Consoles. I am not sure what are best to use. I am an F2P player who only recently re-specced my KDF character for the bug ship. It is a build that shoves everything into weapons, torpedoes, shields, hull and power. There is nothing in stealth, de-compiler etc. I do not wish to spend 500 Zen on another re-spec. Also, I will be badly specced for my Bug and other ships if I do so. With this in mind, I went for

2 X Neutronium
Assim module - mainly for the crits
Zero point module - for crits and plasma damage
2 x Stealth modules, Mk XII rare
3 X ambiplasma envelope Mk XII rare

This along with 2 piece KHG and a Tachyon Deflector Array Mk XII [PrtG] [CMS] [Ins].

You can see I am trying to make up for what is missing in my skill tree by consoles alone. Am I doing the right thing here or am I doomed?

3) I want to do my attack runs as cmdrskyfaller suggests; fire front torps in order I have listed them, dispersal III and plasma mines at 1km etc. However, I get so involved firing correctly that I am not looking at what is going on. I tried to use my programmable keyboard but it makes mistakes and slows up the sequence. I now just spam my torpedo fire button but, of course, the fastest often go first. How can I do something decent using the integral keybind function? I am familiar with how to keybind, BTW.

My goal is to use it in PVP. I am a new PVPer and realise that I am staring at a big hill whilst wondering if my legs are up to it ... I'm not much good even in the bug, lol.
Dude, get the mk 12 Jemmie space set. It helps tremendously for what you're doing.

Also, just to give you a heads up, a Torpedo Boat wont survive on its own. It doesn't do enough damage to shields to be of any real effect. I hope you have high yield as a skill, and hope to God whatever you fight against, doesn't have a transporter ability, or a point defense ability.

If he's got the mk 12 jem space set, he'll detect you before you get into range to deal any real torpedo damage. Assuming he hasn't laid a plethora of mines around him already, in which case, a single attack run will render your destruction, without him ever firing a shot.

I've seen countless idiots try and fight me in their B'rel torp boats, more often than not, they fail miserably. you need 3 more torp boats with you, and voice communication to truly coordinate your attack. To at least spread out the mines between each other, or for one to "take one for the team" while you and the other two can focus on the fight.

Most players who are smart, will be running the mk 12 jem set, just for the stealth detection, and would be running a detection ability time to time. And if they are smart, at least a single tricobalt mine launcher. (to a cloaked b'rel, a single tric mine, will bring it to near death, 2? it's gone)

Torp boats aren't as effective as a lot of people over dramatize them to be.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 90
# 6
03-28-2013, 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
OP: there's three threads on torpedo b'rel setups in this very forum. Read them.
I have read everything B'Rel related I can find. It's all been very helpful, especially yours

However, after building and playing with it, I am still left wondering about the consoles and macro for firing order and can find nothing on here to help me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benovide View Post
Torp boats aren't as effective as a lot of people over dramatize them to be.
From my little PVP experience and the muddle ups I sometimes make trying to get a good attack run in the B'Rel, I fear you may be spot on. Still, I wanted to do something different and the idea has always appealed. I will persevere for a while ..
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 392
# 7
03-28-2013, 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainretset View Post
I have read everything B'Rel related I can find. It's all been very helpful, especially yours

However, after building and playing with it, I am still left wondering about the consoles and macro for firing order and can find nothing on here to help me.




From my little PVP experience and the muddle ups I sometimes make trying to get a good attack run in the B'Rel, I fear you may be spot on. Still, I wanted to do something different and the idea has always appealed. I will persevere for a while ..
The breen space set for torpedoes, and the romulan torpedo set is what I would run.

Cluster torpedos from the breen do substantially more damage than regular quantums and trics. the romulan plasma torps fire a stream or a volley of plasma torpedoes.

Fire romulan plasma torps, followed by a cluster, after the cluster is deployed immediate fire the two tricobalts.

Cluster removes the shield, or most of it, plasma torps from Romulans finish the shields and just start to eat the hull, tricobalts finish it off.

This is all assuming you're dealing with a player who's an idiot and wont counter your volley, but you want the plasma torps to be launched immediately as soon as your cluster is deployed, and tricobalts deployed immediately just after your final plasma deploys.

The real killers will be the tricobalts. The set up is really to prepare the target for the trics to impact with the least notice as possible.

If the player is an utter moron and doesn't launch his counters for missiles, which he should have already on his ship, if you don't kill him, you'll at least do crippling damage, before he then, wipes you out of course. Meaning your second attack run after respawn is what will kill him. But most often than not, it ends up being a tie at that point, you both usually kill each other if he knows to counter.

BTW, if he's got a countering build, like mine for instance: (point defense, BFI, DOffs that limit kinetic damage, hull armor that resist kinetic damage, shields that have kinetic damage resistance, i.e. Jem Hadar.... etc) Your first volley of all 4, including the cluster torpedo wont even deal damage that's noticable at all.

Anyone who's smart, will gear their ship towards kinetic, Antiproton, Polaron, and Tetryon, because they are the three most common energy types used in PVP, and kinetic is the most common distraction. If you gear your cruiser towards tanking out like this, players like you, in your Torpedo Boat, will never survive to even complete one pass, let alone bring the hull down under 80%.

The biggest drawback also, to be effective as a torp boat, is you have to get in close to the enemy ship, assuming the enemy ship is run by an utter idiot, assuming he has no tric mines nearby, and assuming he doesn't have anything to detect cloaked ships (which he should be timing the start of the match vs estimated BoP speed) immediately after decloak, most often than not, he'll bring you to near death, if not already dead.You have to get in close, just to limit the number of torps the target can shoot down before impact.

But, I will add though, the only time you truly see effectiveness of a torpedo boat, is in PvE i.e. Elite Space STFs against the borg.

Let your team knock down the shields to near gone, then fire in this order: CLuster Torpedo, Romulan Plasma, then both Tricobalts. You can wipe a borg Cube from 100% HP to 15% HP with that single move, IF the shields are already brought down to be nearly gone completely.

Last edited by benovide; 03-28-2013 at 09:07 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 232
# 8
03-28-2013, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by benovide View Post
Dude, get the mk 12 Jemmie space set. It helps tremendously for what you're doing.

Also, just to give you a heads up, a Torpedo Boat wont survive on its own. It doesn't do enough damage to shields to be of any real effect. I hope you have high yield as a skill, and hope to God whatever you fight against, doesn't have a transporter ability, or a point defense ability.

If he's got the mk 12 jem space set, he'll detect you before you get into range to deal any real torpedo damage. Assuming he hasn't laid a plethora of mines around him already, in which case, a single attack run will render your destruction, without him ever firing a shot.

I've seen countless idiots try and fight me in their B'rel torp boats, more often than not, they fail miserably. you need 3 more torp boats with you, and voice communication to truly coordinate your attack. To at least spread out the mines between each other, or for one to "take one for the team" while you and the other two can focus on the fight.

Most players who are smart, will be running the mk 12 jem set, just for the stealth detection, and would be running a detection ability time to time. And if they are smart, at least a single tricobalt mine launcher. (to a cloaked b'rel, a single tric mine, will bring it to near death, 2? it's gone)

Torp boats aren't as effective as a lot of people over dramatize them to be.
Mr know it all here folks. dont need 3 brels at all, all u need is a breen cluster crit and you are dead......anyone is dead. they crit at 90k every time. romm boffs, tach converter zero point, ass mod and you have base 13% crit chance. use tac buffs and u will crit ALOT. so please take yur nose turning somewhere else, maybe you just bumped into a brel noob.

To the op. try this. breen 2 piece will boost transphasics alot including the cluster.....get it.

i use the breen 2 piece and fleet elite axion deflector. 2 breens, hargh, regular mkxii tranny up front. tric mines in the rear to troll spawn reset (especially handy when fedscrubs think its fun to camp outnumbered klinks).

key to the torp boat: release cluster bombs within 1km of target....immediately tractor if omega is down and whatch half theyre health pop or with a crit, obliterate them.

you should never fire youre breens from a distance, they are slow and easily shot down. basicly you are widdling youre target down until u get that nice breen crit!

gl and if you have any questions, ask me ill check the thread from time to time.

oh and equip an ams to really piss them off. leech console dosent really work with torps.

oh that reminds me...u dont need weapon power with all torps. put power in aux (for better stealth) and engines.

Last edited by beefsupreme79; 03-28-2013 at 11:06 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 232
# 9
03-28-2013, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by benovide View Post
The breen space set for torpedoes, and the romulan torpedo set is what I would run.

Cluster torpedos from the breen do substantially more damage than regular quantums and trics. the romulan plasma torps fire a stream or a volley of plasma torpedoes.

Fire romulan plasma torps, followed by a cluster, after the cluster is deployed immediate fire the two tricobalts.

Cluster removes the shield, or most of it, plasma torps from Romulans finish the shields and just start to eat the hull, tricobalts finish it off.

This is all assuming you're dealing with a player who's an idiot and wont counter your volley, but you want the plasma torps to be launched immediately as soon as your cluster is deployed, and tricobalts deployed immediately just after your final plasma deploys.



The real killers will be the tricobalts. The set up is really to prepare the target for the trics to impact with the least notice as possible.

If the player is an utter moron and doesn't launch his counters for missiles, which he should have already on his ship, if you don't kill him, you'll at least do crippling damage, before he then, wipes you out of course. Meaning your second attack run after respawn is what will kill him. But most often than not, it ends up being a tie at that point, you both usually kill each other if he knows to counter.

BTW, if he's got a countering build, like mine for instance: (point defense, BFI, DOffs that limit kinetic damage, hull armor that resist kinetic damage, shields that have kinetic damage resistance, i.e. Jem Hadar.... etc) Your first volley of all 4, including the cluster torpedo wont even deal damage that's noticable at all.

Anyone who's smart, will gear their ship towards kinetic, Antiproton, Polaron, and Tetryon, because they are the three most common energy types used in PVP, and kinetic is the most common distraction. If you gear your cruiser towards tanking out like this, players like you, in your Torpedo Boat, will never survive to even complete one pass, let alone bring the hull down under 80%.

The biggest drawback also, to be effective as a torp boat, is you have to get in close to the enemy ship, assuming the enemy ship is run by an utter idiot, assuming he has no tric mines nearby, and assuming he doesn't have anything to detect cloaked ships (which he should be timing the start of the match vs estimated BoP speed) immediately after decloak, most often than not, he'll bring you to near death, if not already dead.You have to get in close, just to limit the number of torps the target can shoot down before impact.

But, I will add though, the only time you truly see effectiveness of a torpedo boat, is in PvE i.e. Elite Space STFs against the borg.

Let your team knock down the shields to near gone, then fire in this order: CLuster Torpedo, Romulan Plasma, then both Tricobalts. You can wipe a borg Cube from 100% HP to 15% HP with that single move, IF the shields are already brought down to be nearly gone completely.
clusters do nothing to sheilds, they bypass the sheild to do dmg, iv killed players with 100% sheilds. tricoblat torps are worthless on a brel, you have no way of stripping a sheild face. plus they nerfed trics in half.

i loled when i read..."torp boats are only effective in pve" wtf????/ are you spreading misinformation, so new brel pilots are mislead?

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY

Last edited by beefsupreme79; 03-28-2013 at 11:12 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 392
# 10
03-28-2013, 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsupreme79 View Post
Mr know it all here folks. dont need 3 brels at all, all u need is a breen cluster crit and you are dead......anyone is dead. they crit at 90k every time. romm boffs, tach converter zero point, ass mod and you have base 13% crit chance. use tac buffs and u will crit ALOT. so please take yur nose turning somewhere else, maybe you just bumped into a brel noob.

To the op. try this. breen 2 piece will boost transphasics alot including the cluster.....get it.

i use the breen 2 piece and fleet elite axion deflector. 2 breens, hargh, regular mkxii tranny up front. tric mines in the rear to troll spawn reset (especially handy when fedscrubs think its fun to camp outnumbered klinks).

key to the torp boat: release cluster bombs within 1km of target....immediately tractor if omega is down and whatch half theyre health pop or with a crit, obliterate them.

you should never fire youre breens from a distance, they are slow and easily shot down. basicly you are widdling youre target down until u get that nice breen crit!

gl and if you have any questions, ask me ill check the thread from time to time.

oh and equip an ams to really piss them off. leech console dosent really work with torps.

oh that reminds me...u dont need weapon power with all torps. put power in aux (for better stealth) and engines.
90k Crit? Are you stoned? You can't even go beyond 10k for a crit.

Plasma torps eliminate shields, Breen Cluster, can also cut down shields. You're not the only one who's run a Torp boat. To get into 1km of the target, means you're going to be hit by the mines the player has launched.

Tricobalt torpedos, deal more damage, even via crit than the Cluster does. You can even do the math yourself.

Torpedo boats are largely useless unless grouped.
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