Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 318
# 11
01-31-2013, 03:59 PM
If your gonna run an aux cannon build Id suggest the adapted sets. Getting the engine wich gives a boost to your power levels plus if you use the deflector you get the 2 piece wich is 8.8 aux power if I remember. throw on the rom and omega consoles and the ship runs with a really impressive base power. I use the eptx doff so I can get a cycle out of eptw1 and eptsII and at that point I have mine running 90/100/50/125. With the maco shield it goes even higher when your being shot at. which if you open with a fully buffed lance console and crf, is going to be for the short remainder of the targets life.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,220
# 12
01-31-2013, 04:33 PM
Aux cannons are gimp. No top-end DPS layout is going to use them. They have limited use in builds where people do not want to swap power, but if you know how to swap power effectively aux cannons are a total DPS loss.

I run my Vesta like this (Aventine hull, the "tac" version)

3xDHC, phaser
KCB, 2x phaser turrets
omega defector+engines
maco shields

4xphaser console
2x vesta console, rommie -threat +pla partgen console, rommie -threat +hullheal partgen console
remaining vesta console, assimulated module.

TSS1, Scramble Sensors 1, HE 3, GW3
Either PH1 or ST1, I prefer PH
TT1, APB1 or CSV1. I prefer APB1, as I run elite scorps and I want to up their damage as much as possible.
EP2S1, A2B1
EP2W1, DEM1, EWP1

3xtechnician doffs
1 gravemetric scientist
1 sensor officer, the new kind, that adds a power recharge time debuff to scramble sensors.

Scramble sensors isn't really of great use in ESTF, but in almost any other situation it is a great skill. The new doff that makes it a power recharge buff at least makes it useable in ESTF and I don't need to swap the boff out. Before the the new doff I went with TSS1, HE2, VM1, GW3, and in ESTF that is probly still a better loadout, but I said screw it and just went with SS and the doff full time.

Edit: If you run APB instead of CSV and stick a DBB up front in place of a DHC you can acheive similar DPS and still use your subsystem targeting, but on a Vesta I prefer the raw DPS.... YMMV
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Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Career Officer
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Posts: 1,020
# 13
01-31-2013, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
Aux cannons are gimp. No top-end DPS layout is going to use them. They have limited use in builds where people do not want to swap power, but if you know how to swap power effectively aux cannons are a total DPS loss.
On the contrary, if you want the max DPS out of the Vesta, Aux cannons are great because you've got 2 pools of 'Weapons' power.

Put it this way, if 3 x DHCs and 3 x Turrets (or whatever) are all pulling power from 125 Weapons, some of your weapons are going to have less power available to them than if they're firing from a separate 'pool'.

If you build your Vesta right (see my previous post) you can run 125 Aux and 100+ Weapons (without any buffs) - hardly 'gimp'. Admittedly, it's a pretty niche build (and you sacrifice a lot of durability) but it provides the possibility of a Tac (APA/GDF/FOM) flying a 125 Aux Sci ship with a Cmdr Sci and possibly a Lt. Cmdr Tac - pretty damn cool if you ask me.
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Last edited by weylandjuarez; 01-31-2013 at 05:14 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,220
# 14
01-31-2013, 05:14 PM
I think you are undervaluing the power consumtion reduction proc from the omega weapons 2pc.

It should make a wep power vesta out damage a split aux/wep vesta.

Of course, it all depends on how good you are at managing power levels, and using an A2B build puts aux cannons right out of the running... I don't know about you but the math on A2B builds is just too good...
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Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 15
01-31-2013, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
I think you are undervaluing the power consumtion reduction proc from the omega weapons 2pc.

It should make a wep power vesta out damage a split aux/wep vesta.

Of course, it all depends on how good you are at managing power levels, and using an A2B build puts aux cannons right out of the running... I don't know about you but the math on A2B builds is just too good...
Personally I don't run Aux2Batt builds but I don't doubt that it's effective - note that the Omega Weapons Amplifier works pretty sweet on the high Aux/high Weapons build too though since it adds a further buff to an already high Weapons setting (I'd run a Kinetic Cutting Beam instead of one Phaser Turret).
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# 16
01-31-2013, 05:20 PM
Hehe, I'm hooked on A2B personally. It is so good on ships that can support it. Defiants aren't good for it for example, far to many tac slots to get a good build with, but most ships have enough variety in their boff slots that A2B becomes a no-brainer once you get used to building for it.
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Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
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# 17
01-31-2013, 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
Hehe, I'm hooked on A2B personally. It is so good on ships that can support it. Defiants aren't good for it for example, far to many tac slots to get a good build with, but most ships have enough variety in their boff slots that A2B becomes a no-brainer once you get used to building for it.
Yeah, it's something I've been meaning to try for a while now - when I've got some free time I'll try out your build
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# 18
01-31-2013, 05:27 PM
You will find the build I listed is not quite a DPS powerhouse. It is no slouch, don't get me wrong, but it is more focused on CC, what with the EWP and all... I out DPS it with my Atrox consistantly, but the Vesta has the advantage of mobility, which lets me actually land my CC where and when I want it.

Edit: I worked with many, many different tac oriented setups and could not match my Atrox. The 2xHanagar Bays and elite scorps won out every time. I eventually just gave up and embraced the fact that the mobility gave me a better ability to land my CC's. That is not to say that the Vesta is a poor ship, just I was able to build my Atrox for higher DPS. I found building the Vesta for DPS cost me too many sci abliities vs the Atrox... Again, all due to the 2x hangar bays. Pets can do a ton of damage if you run them right, things like AP:B and such are godly for a carrier craft.

Edit2: I think the other half of the equation is the rommie plasma sci consoles. I run phasers on my Vesta for the Quantum Focus Phaser console, but on my Atrox I get to stack the crazy plasma damage... Fun times!

Edit3: Not quite the thread for it, but this is my DPS Atrox setup. I'm always up for sharing a good A2B build. A good tac should be able to outdps me, but nobody has managed in PuGs yet. Nobody. I only get beat when I switch to my flowcap build for Hive Onslaught, because a debuffer is more valueable in there then a DPSer, provided you actually have some DPSers about.

Experimental Romulan beam, romulan torps, omega torps
2x Adapted Maco
Maco shields = I just dont have the adapted shields yet... I'll try them out when I get them
KCB, 2xromulan plasma turrets

2xplasma torpedo consoles
4xromulan threat scaling consoles, partgen, +pla. I went with -threat... my build is pretty squishy for a carrier, I'd rather a good eng/cruiser be taking hits. I get enough heat as it is with my DPS...
Assimulated module, Zero-Point energy Conduit, Isometric Charge (Too good not to invest in if you are running high partgen. If you aren't or are opposed... this is where my build is screaming for a damage resistance console... I am *FAR* too squishy for a big ship, but I am speced for hurt, not tank...)

TT1, APB:1
EP2S1, A2B1, ... I swap out a lot on the last power... between EWP1, Aceton Beam 1, and DEM2. EWP would be the best if I could reliably land it on my Atrox... she is just too big and slow most of the time. Aceton Beam is an amazing debuff, but low DPS. DEM2 is a little less then what I'd like considering my weapons layout, but it is consistant damage... I suppose I probly should toss Eng Team 3 here and solve my squishyness issues, but I am stubborn somtimes...)
HE1, TBR1, Photonic Shockwave 1, GW3
TSS1, Scramble sensors 1, Energy Syphon 2

2x elite scorpion fighters.... so good... so good... awaiting the nerf they are soooo good...

3x technician doffs
1xgravemetric scientist
1xnew style sensor officer

The Energy syhpon combined with A2B allows me to run a fairly high aux and still have near full weapon power most of the time. The timing does take some getting used to, and it eats into the cooldown reduction of my A2B a little bit as I stall it for the power cycle, but my results speak for themselves when I parse the logs. How I try to do it is fire off ES as soon as possible, against any bloody thing. The debuff is nice but secondary to my power levels. Then, when ES is at somewhere between 45-30 seconds left on its cooldown I fire off A2B. Actually that is just one of my A2B strategies, you learn a ton of different ones when you toy with it. Another interesting one, more useful at the end of a fight when you know it isn't going to last long enough to mess with your recharge cycle is to fire of the ES, and then imediately A2B. Then you get some power back from the ES to your Aux. That works pretty well if you aren't worred about your power levels... but this build is power dependant. I want my wep power topped off as much as possible.
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Last edited by kimmym; 01-31-2013 at 06:23 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,055
# 19
02-01-2013, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
On the contrary, if you want the max DPS out of the Vesta, Aux cannons are great because you've got 2 pools of 'Weapons' power.

Put it this way, if 3 x DHCs and 3 x Turrets (or whatever) are all pulling power from 125 Weapons, some of your weapons are going to have less power available to them than if they're firing from a separate 'pool'.

If you build your Vesta right (see my previous post) you can run 125 Aux and 100+ Weapons (without any buffs) - hardly 'gimp'. Admittedly, it's a pretty niche build (and you sacrifice a lot of durability) but it provides the possibility of a Tac (APA/GDF/FOM) flying a 125 Aux Sci ship with a Cmdr Sci and possibly a Lt. Cmdr Tac - pretty damn cool if you ask me.
there is logic in this. however you lose significant tanking by taking power from shields, which means, in ESTFs you gonna die fast. and phaser is not the best dps weapon type, so again, you lose dps there too. plus the turrets only are not that high of power drainers to make this change. ofc the added skill strengths are great, with having high aux, but that wil still not make up for the dmg you take


to OP:
as you are an ENG, here is my "10k DPS Vesta" build. as you are not a tac, the tanking aspect of it, might interest you too.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 20
02-01-2013, 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
there is logic in this. however you lose significant tanking by taking power from shields, which means, in ESTFs you gonna die fast. and phaser is not the best dps weapon type, so again, you lose dps there too. plus the turrets only are not that high of power drainers to make this change. ofc the added skill strengths are great, with having high aux, but that wil still not make up for the dmg you take
Well to be fair, the Vesta isn't a ship designed for tanking anyway - speccing into Hull HP and Shield Power will help though and I wouldn't run a build like that without at least two Field Generators.

As noted in my original post, it is squishy but a I fly a B'Rel too so I'm used to that and compensate for it - this loadout performs just great in ESTFs though and frequently pulls aggro from less optimized builds (i.e. Tac/Escorts that aren't maximizing their DPS).

Oh, and it also somewhat forces you into using the Borg Shield (for the 2-piece set bonus) which is a problem for some - a setup like this really requires you build your Captain around it - fun, but not for everyone.
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Last edited by weylandjuarez; 02-01-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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