Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 21
02-01-2013, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
Well to be fair, the Vesta isn't a ship designed for tanking anyway - speccing into Hull HP and Shield Power will help though and I wouldn't run a build like that without at least two Field Generators.

As noted in my original post, it is squishy but a I fly a B'Rel too so I'm used to that and compensate for it - this loadout performs just great in ESTFs though and frequently pulls aggro from less optimized builds (i.e. Tac/Escorts that aren't maximizing their DPS).

Oh, and it also somewhat forces you into using the Borg Shield (for the 2-piece set bonus) which is a problem for some - a setup like this really requires you build your Captain around it - fun, but not for everyone.
I am gonna try your setup and try to merge it to mine because it does seem promising. however I have doubts. the disruptor proc is just too good to abandon it for phaser. so dmg wise its gonna be energy drain vs disruptor proc. also dmg will be affected by sustainability, which with shields low, will be hard, however a high aux power will help actual healing (still the Vesta's tanking comes from its shield, and I have not seen any numbers how much shields will remain at lower powers)

it could work, but we shall see


meh forget it, after seeing how much dmg I would lose on the turrets alone, I dismissed this idea. its not best for maximizing dps

Last edited by ferdzso0; 02-01-2013 at 10:36 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,039
# 22
02-01-2013, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
On the contrary, if you want the max DPS out of the Vesta, Aux cannons are great because you've got 2 pools of 'Weapons' power.
I posted my build and numbers questioning this, and asked what numbers you got out of Aux cannons on your Vesta. You haven't answered.

(With EPtW1, Efficient Traits, and assorted bonuses I never dipped below 100 weapon power during the firing cycles, from what I remember.)

Also, my Vesta was fairly tanky. I held aggro (not by choice) and tanked against a single Tac Cube and a Gateway, and both times I blew up just once, and only 1-2 seconds before we killed them. If I hadn't be overly optimistic ("I can hold out for another 1-2 seconds!") I would have survived by popping Miracle Worker.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk

Last edited by darkjeff; 02-01-2013 at 12:07 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 23
02-01-2013, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
I posted my build and numbers questioning this, and asked what numbers you got out of Aux cannons on your Vesta. You haven't answered.

(With EPtW1, Efficient Traits, and assorted bonuses I never dipped below 100 weapon power during the firing cycles, from what I remember.)

Also, my Vesta was fairly tanky. I held aggro (not by choice) and tanked against a single Tac Cube and a Gateway, and both times I blew up just once, and only 1-2 seconds before we killed them. If I hadn't be overly optimistic ("I can hold out for another 1-2 seconds!") I would have survived by popping Miracle Worker.
Sorry - must've missed your post.

At the moment it's a work-in-progress on a Sci that lacks the Warp Theorist trait so it's not going to be as high as I'd like - also I'm using lower Mk Plasma Manifolds/Jem'hadar Engines than I'd ideally be using (no efficient Boffs either).

So with all that I'm running 125 Aux/95 Weapons - with the planned alterations/enhancements I should be hitting 125/100+ with no emergency power to anything.

Each DHC drains -12 power so 3 x 12 = 36 power drain in a firing cycle. Turrets are -8 so you're looking at -24 if you're running 3. Total of 60 power drain per cycle so your last weapon in the chain is firing at 73 Weapons power if it's a turret or 77 if it's a DHC (assuming you're not overcapped on Weapons) i.e.

DHC 1: 125
DHC 2: 113 (-12)
DHC 3: 101 (-12)
Turret 1: 89 (-12)
Turret 2: 81 (-8)
Turret 3: 73 (-8)

Aux DHC 1: 125
Aux DHC 2: 113 (-12)
Aux DHC 3: 101 (-12)
Turret 1: 100
Turret 2: 92 (-8)
Turret 3: 84 (-8)

Assuming your DHCs are running off 125 Aux, the Aux power you'll have for your last DHC is 101. The minimum Weapons power you'll have for your last turret is 84 (assuming you're running at 100 Weapons).

One thing I don't know (haven't looked into it) is what order the weapons fire in for a typical 3 x DHC, 3 x Turret setup - ideally you'd want your DHCs firing first for maximum DPS - I'm not sure if there's any way to guarantee that though and if not, that would widen the gap even more.

I haven't parsed any of this (and I'm still putting the ship together) but even if the gains are small, it's still going to outperform a 125 Weapons build and you'll be running high-Aux all the time for Sci powers.

Even as the ship is now it's consistently giving great results in Elite STFs - when I have some hard numbers I'll start a new thread and post them.
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012

Last edited by weylandjuarez; 02-01-2013 at 02:25 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 24
02-02-2013, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
Sorry - must've missed your post.

At the moment it's a work-in-progress on a Sci that lacks the Warp Theorist trait so it's not going to be as high as I'd like - also I'm using lower Mk Plasma Manifolds/Jem'hadar Engines than I'd ideally be using (no efficient Boffs either).

So with all that I'm running 125 Aux/95 Weapons - with the planned alterations/enhancements I should be hitting 125/100+ with no emergency power to anything.

Each DHC drains -12 power so 3 x 12 = 36 power drain in a firing cycle. Turrets are -8 so you're looking at -24 if you're running 3. Total of 60 power drain per cycle so your last weapon in the chain is firing at 73 Weapons power if it's a turret or 77 if it's a DHC (assuming you're not overcapped on Weapons) i.e.

DHC 1: 125
DHC 2: 113 (-12)
DHC 3: 101 (-12)
Turret 1: 89 (-12)
Turret 2: 81 (-8)
Turret 3: 73 (-8)

Aux DHC 1: 125
Aux DHC 2: 113 (-12)
Aux DHC 3: 101 (-12)
Turret 1: 100
Turret 2: 92 (-8)
Turret 3: 84 (-8)

Assuming your DHCs are running off 125 Aux, the Aux power you'll have for your last DHC is 101. The minimum Weapons power you'll have for your last turret is 84 (assuming you're running at 100 Weapons).

One thing I don't know (haven't looked into it) is what order the weapons fire in for a typical 3 x DHC, 3 x Turret setup - ideally you'd want your DHCs firing first for maximum DPS - I'm not sure if there's any way to guarantee that though and if not, that would widen the gap even more.

I haven't parsed any of this (and I'm still putting the ship together) but even if the gains are small, it's still going to outperform a 125 Weapons build and you'll be running high-Aux all the time for Sci powers.

Even as the ship is now it's consistently giving great results in Elite STFs - when I have some hard numbers I'll start a new thread and post them.
I did some stf runs with aux cannons and full weapon power next to it (82 was the max I got there), and generally I lost around 2k DPS in each game over my disruptors, so for dps this might still not be the best.

however it can come pretty close. if you manage to get your weapon power higher, it would help a lot. also tanking is pretty easy, as all the sci healing powers will just make you invulnareable while active with full power at aux.

if anything, that build is very easy to use, and rather simple to operate, no need to think about timing batteries right and such. I will keep experimenting though with other consoles and such, maybe I can get it up working as I want to, dealing nearly as much dps as my disruptors
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 527
# 25
02-02-2013, 12:04 PM
I forgo Phasers on my Joined Trill Engineer and usually run Anti-Protons... but for the Tac Vesta I ran something else: the plasma build.

Fore:
1 MK XII Romulan plasma DBB (Acc/Dmg), 1 MK XII Plasma DBB (Acc x2/Dmg), Omega Torp
Aft: 1 MK XII Romulan BA (Acc/Dmg), Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam, 1 Experimental Romulan Plasma BA

Consoles:
Tac- MK XII Plasma Infusers x3, Zero Point Energy console
Eng- MK XII Neutronium armor, Borg Universal Console
Sci- Theta Radiation Console, Tachyokinetic Console, MK XII rare Shield Emitter, MK XII rare Shield Regen

BOFF layout:
Lt Cmd uni is set to tac: Torp Spread 1, HYT 2, BO 3 (Very rare Efficient Saurian)
Lt. Tac: TT 1, Fire At Will 2 (Very Rare Human)
Lt. Eng: EP2S 1, Aux2SIF 1 (Very Rare Saurian)
Ens Uni is set to Sci: HE 1 (Liberated Borg Eng)
Cmd Sci: PH 1, HE2, TSS3, GW3 (Reman)

I'm also using the the MK XII Adapted MACO space set for the power and torp bonus. My fleet ran Infected STF on it and the ship did well. The low hull rate is something I can manage as an engineer.

I also decided during that STF run to see what happens when I keep my power levels all equal... it worked out. Explains why my Vesta's turn rate went to 26.1 degrees per sec.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,039
# 26
02-04-2013, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
Each DHC drains -12 power so 3 x 12 = 36 power drain in a firing cycle. Turrets are -8 so you're looking at -24 if you're running 3. Total of 60 power drain per cycle so your last weapon in the chain is firing at 73 Weapons power if it's a turret or 77 if it's a DHC (assuming you're not overcapped on Weapons) i.e.
I was actually using 1 Quad Phasers (-10 drain), 1 Phaser DBB (-10 Drain), and 1 Phaser DHC (-12).

How do you manage 125 Aux and 95 Weapons? Are your shields/engine not at 50/25 (pre-mods)?

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 98
# 27
02-04-2013, 11:02 AM
My sci in the recon vesta is currently parsing 8500 average dps in ISE

3 Aux DHC
2 Phaser Turrets
1 Cutting beam
Elite Scorps

Weapon Power 95/60
Aux Power 125/90

You can get those power levels by having 6 points in Warp Core efficiency and potential skills... and 9 points in Weapon and Aux skills.

Adapted XII Maco Shield and Deflector (+8.8 Aux)
Jem XII Engines (+6 Weapon)

Consoles:
Tac- MK XI purple Phaser Relays x4
Eng- Zero Point, Borg Universal Console
Sci- XI blue Shield Gen x2, QFFC, Fermion

BOFF layout:
Lt Cmd Tac: TT1, CRP1, APB2 (Rom +crit chance)
Lt. Tac: TT 1, CRP1 (Human)
Lt. Eng: EP2S1, Aux2SIF1 (Efficient Saurian)
Ens Sci: HE 1 (Efficient Saurian)
Cmd Sci: HE1, PH2, TSS3, GW3 (Efficient Saurian)

Last edited by kingstonalan; 02-04-2013 at 11:06 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,039
# 28
02-05-2013, 07:54 AM
Looks like I sacrificed DPS for cycling EPtW1 and EPtS2. Durability over damage, because I found I had to off-tank a lot in the Vesta.

Though I'm wondering why you're using two Adapted MACO parts without any torpedoes.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 29
02-05-2013, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjeff View Post
I was actually using 1 Quad Phasers (-10 drain), 1 Phaser DBB (-10 Drain), and 1 Phaser DHC (-12).

How do you manage 125 Aux and 95 Weapons? Are your shields/engine not at 50/25 (pre-mods)?
Wep: 95/60
Shld: 55/25
Engs: 40/25
Aux: 125/90

Numbers are a combination of traits (Warp Theorist), skill point allocation (Aux/Weapons/Warp Efficiency and Potential) and gear (Borg Deflector/Shield, Mk XI Jem Engines, 2 x Plasma Manifolds, Borg Console, Romulan Zero-Point Console) - adding Efficient Boffs, the Mk XII Jem Engine and the Excelsior's Transwarp Computer would push this even higher - as would swapping out the Manifolds for Mk XII purples.

Really pushing the Efficiency should get the Weapons power to 100+ and the Shields to 60+ with the Engines at 45-50ish.

*Edit* Oh, and this is fun - if for some reason I want to run high-shields, because the Jem Engines give a variable Weapons Efficiency bonus I still get 70/25 Weapons so my 'Shields' preset looks like this:

Wep: 70/25
Shld: 84/60
Engs: 40/25
Aux: 125/90

Nice, since I'm still doing the same DPS with the Aux Cannons and just dialling back my turrets.
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012

Last edited by weylandjuarez; 02-05-2013 at 08:24 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
# 30
02-05-2013, 11:08 AM
What do you guys think about my Vesta build?

This is the Surveilance Explorer (sci vesta) and i'm a Sci captain. This build is for fight while heal others in STF's.



2x Aux DHC + Quad Cannon
2x Phaser Turret XI + cutting beam

Tac consoles: 3 phaser relay XI
Eng: EPS + armour console aginst plasma weapons
Sci: Fermion modul, Field emitter, Shield Emitter Ampl., Flow capacitor, Assimilated module

I used the Adapted Maco set because of the covariant shield and the awsome deflector bonuses to the sci powers. Max shiled is 17.8K currently and i will raising it a bit more higher by changing the Flow cap to a second field emitter. So this ship is a bunker, wich shoots back.

Power levels for attacking shielded targets:
75
62
44
124

DPS with these settings:
AUX DHC's 1194DPS
Quad 747DPS - 910DPS (EPtW1)
Turret's 369DPS - 449DPS (EPtW1)
Cutting beam 641DPS - 781DPS (EPtW1)
(EPtW1 raises weapon power to ~91)


My favorite powers: Viral matrix 3, Tyken's rift 2, Hazard em. 3

You can see the build in picture here: http://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2013-02/39613_1.png
And the BO's here: http://prohardver.hu/dl/upc/2013-02/39613_2.png
*edit: the borg engine will be replaced tomorow
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:04 PM.