Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
Personal log, star date 02 mark 04 mark 2413.

So we hated on clickies. They eventually vanished.

Then we hated on grinders. I was one of the more vocal haters, even though I made no Foundry mission. DJ Gir Aynd appeared and forced the Devs' hand. Now that's gone too.

All that's left were grinders that actually put up a fight. We lost some missions which had passive hostile characters. I thot for the prices we paid, we the Foundry community won.

I was wrong. All we did was incite a full backlash of a ratings war on the Foundry so bad that now even ratings are useless as a search tool unless I'm allowed to exclude 5-star ratings and look only for 3-stars and below (which some of the better story missions are after the rating bombings).

I love the Foundry and its potential for great stories when there is none. It reminds me of the time when there was no Star Trek and only fanfiction, a time predating my birth told to me by Trekkies of old. It pains me to see it destroyed by the very people who create and play in it.

I realize that some grinders have their place. I also realize that there are exploits that must be dealt with. If there's easy EC, then with increased disposable income come prices that simply stay up and the poor get left behind. We just can't roll back the changes we've made.

I'm no Federation Ambassador, I got it by sending doffs on a daily grind. Maybe that's why I find that it has come to the point where there is no end in sight. I cannot see how to heal this divide.

But I do know that this "us versus them" mentality must end first. Enough fighting! There's no honor to be gained from this war, no purpose gained from a witch hunt that lost its way. We must, somehow, come to the table, and do something, agree to something, even though I know as Star Trek fans even we could never agree on something.

After that, is the really hard part... And I'd hate to say it, but only Q knows how we will go from here.

End personal log.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 2
02-04-2013, 01:58 AM
New search UI. It really was that simple from the start.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 3
02-04-2013, 02:00 AM
That's not going to stop the ratings bombing. I get a feeling that it will continue until the devs put easy credits and clickies back.

Which with a new search UI will make it even easier for rating bombers to target and destroy Foundry story missions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 4
02-04-2013, 02:06 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong, I am not under the delusion that it will all just cease at once and everyone will hug each other. We have passed the window for a quiet and bloodless resolution, but it will run out of steam and people will get board of it fairly soon.

Last edited by ajstoner; 02-04-2013 at 02:41 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,962
# 5
02-04-2013, 02:23 AM
Foundry authors have had 1 star bombing raids since day 1. ive actually had someone give feedback hoping that i died. trolls will be trolls and will go out of their way to attack people if it takes their fancy.

we need a better search UI because it needs a better search UI. If you dont do something that is needed for fear of trolls then congrats, they've won.

grinding missions have not gone. they are still there and its fine that they are there. exploit missions are being targeted which is a different thing. people can still do grind missions all they like, the enemy will just shoot back at them.

this really is not complicated. once a better search UI is used people will be able to find what they want faster. the trolls will still be there, the ones who want to afk will still complain but the system will have what it has needed from the start.

its never going to be perfect because humans are involved. you cant police an MMO to maximum effect. all you can do is make it the best you can, then put out the fires where needed.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 6
02-04-2013, 02:43 AM
I love your avatar, Revo. It makes me hear all your posts as Patrick Stewart speaking with great frustration and irritation, lol.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,962
# 7
02-04-2013, 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
I love your avatar, Revo. It makes me hear all your posts as Patrick Stewart speaking with great frustration and irritation, lol.
Haha.

/10char

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 8
02-04-2013, 03:22 AM
With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably...

AKA Epic Picard Facepalm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 293
# 9
02-04-2013, 03:57 AM
Of course there's a diplomatic solution. Back off the player-base.
So much of the 'good' stuff costs Ec in Massive Quantities.
Right now 1.2million ec is approximately equal to one dollar (usd)
A Jem'Hadar Attack ship is 400 million Ec at the moment.
Your average Tac Console is anywhere from 15 to 60 million ec.

For an average player these things are just so far out of reach, at least until they gain a certain perspective, as to seem completely unattainable.

This is free to play, that means micro charging. Any and Every successful free to play game has exploits. they are necessary to sustain the health of the business model. If there are no exploits, FTP/PTW becomes much much too expensive to sustain any type of player base to support it.
Personally, I believe it is a myth that Cryptic is so hard up for cash to keep this game afloat as some would so vehemently argue. That's besides the point though.
$400 for a ship is ridiculous. as is $30 for one console. this is a game, not a mortgage payment.

... its late, i'm tired. what I want to say is this. That these exploits are good for the game. Lets say Player 'a' wants to pvp, to do that he needs umpteen million ec to buy equipment he feels is competitive. Without these little exploits, 'n it is little, half a million ec is nothing. without these, the game as ftp would fail.
People would simply move on to something else. by and large.
The average player does not believe he can make ec at the level which is needed for the 'good' stuff. 'n everyone wants the good stuff. at least at first. most people want it till they have it. then they want better stuff. If they cant get it, they'll move on.
Little things like these clickies or ec dumps let that player get a tiny chunk of what he needs to get where he wants to be, while leaving him time to participate in the numerous other grinds that seem so very necessary to do 'well' in sto.
That little gratification, that's what it really is, is damn healthy in a free to play model. without it there is only frusteration, demoralization, and eventually, inactive accounts and empty ques.

What I don't get is the logic behind flaming the clickies 'n farming missions anyway.
If you for a minute thought that someone playing quicky missions and ec dumps is going to play a 60 to 90 minute user authored mission then you are quite mistaken.
If you think taking the clickies away is going to make your stories more popular than you are more than mistaken, you're absolutely daft. They're playing them to save time, so they can feel like they've accomplished something 'n still have time in game to do something else they enjoy, or feel they need to do to compete. its a horse a piece to cryptic, not to doubt.
Personally I don't do the clickies anymore. No need. I've learned to make ec enough to get what I need without grinding it for months 'n months.
But I see the need for them. and missions like them. Its why we have 'Rich Dilithium Mining' and a half an hour cool down on Investigate Officer reports. That's not for your 90 storys. in no way is it.
The foundry is not yours alone. If you want a diplomatic solution. Its very simple.
Back Off. Let the grinders have their little 500k a day. Its good for the sto economy.

You care about the sto economy don't you?

If you want more people to play your missions make better missions.
Cater to the pew pew pewers in one. The story arc readers in another.
Advertise them, Offer Prizes, I don't know, But penalizing the vast majority of players because 'crycrycry' they're playing quickies instead. isn't going to get you anywhere.

Of course, If you're severely hardheaded, 'n want to say, well let the exploiters 'n ftpers get out, u go talk to cryptic about that. Bet ten to one they'll tell you to get stuffed because free to play makes a he.. heck, of a lot more money than subscription.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,967
# 10
02-04-2013, 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post

I realize that some grinders have their place. I also realize that there are exploits that must be dealt with. If there's easy EC, then with increased disposable income come prices that simply stay up and the poor get left behind. We just can't roll back the changes we've made.

I'm no Federation Ambassador,
And I'm sad to say that you're not the guardians of the "proper use" of the Foundry , nor of the STO Economy .
Yet (I'm equally sad to say) many of you pretend that you are , in order to justify your hatred of Clickys , and now of AFK Grinders .

You are puritans (just like the Borg) , and just like the Borg , there will be many ppl in misery before you achieve your "perfection" in the Foundry -- and ironically you yourself's will be among the miserable -- yet quite a number of you (OP excluded) will refuse to even acknowledge that you are the very cause of most of your own misery .

You have put up an interesting description of events , but you left out the emotional scarring that "Foundry Puritans" have caused .
Looking for a "diplomatic solution" after you've twice f-ed over the population of players who use the Foundry for other reasons that to enjoy a good Trek tale is a very noble thing to do , but you need to do better then to say "well we are all very happy with how things are now , so what can we do to stop the 1 Star bombings .

Because "we" are clearly not very happy .
* and no , I do not presume to talk on the behalf of anyone but myself , but it's pretty clear that the incessant "busy bodies" who could not leave well enough alone in "their Foundry" got more then they bargained for .

From my POV , it's very sad to see so many story authors who had nothing to do with any of this get decimating reviews .

But as to those zealous purists who think they "own" the foundry (or that their opinions matter more because they happen to be on a podcast) -- yeah , well , I'm equally sorry to say this but they deserve more harshness than a simple 1 Star .
Puritans and zealots are a cancer in all societies , and STO is no different .

So ease up , live and let live and don't presume to tell someone else how to play their game or how to make their missions . The stronger you oppose this , the worst off you'll be in the end .

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
exploit missions are being targeted which is a different thing. people can still do grind missions all they like, the enemy will just shoot back at them.
When you decide for someone else what's an exploit (especially if you are not hurt personally by it -- like you are from a Voldmort in PVP), then actually there is a reason to resent your POV .
Many in the general STO population have resented the Clicky's being taken away but the more vocal opposers to Clickys in the Foundry community got their way , because these Foundry authors believed that the Clikys were the bain of their existence .
Round 2 of this was the AFK grinders .

When those very Foundry authors will wake up and stop demanding things that have nothing -- READ : N-O-T-H-I-N-G -- to do with their missions popularity (or lack of there of) , that will be a happy day .
Sadly , from some of the posts I've read from these "high profile" ppl , the very notion that they've done something that upset other players has not yet trickled into their consciousnesses -- so better to play the victim instead .
It sure is easier .
"We're not mad at Angry Birds, and we're not trying to defend the universe from Angry Birds. Although you might want to consider defending yourself from Angry Birds. If you aren't paying for the app, you aren't a customer, you're the product ."

- former CIA, NSA chief Michael Hayden -- your guide to F2P ...
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