Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 712
# 91
02-08-2013, 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I can see how Resists/Regen can appear to be the issue, but there's just as much of an argument to be made that they NEED to exist in their current state BECAUSE spike damage builds and SNB coordination strikes exist.
How exactly is massive healing over time helping against spikes? It only devalues pressure damage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what did you add to the game in recent times that has significantly increased dps? I don't think that there has been any addition that even remotely compares to the increase in healing and passive resists (which totally killed any positive steps you took with rebalancing the BFI doff and effectively reducing the 3-part borg proc by splitting the set).

The game has moved from a state where pressure and spike damage coexisted and both were valuable to a state where only spike damage has any meaning at all. Is this intentional?
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Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 92
02-08-2013, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
How exactly is massive healing over time helping against spikes? It only devalues pressure damage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what did you add to the game in recent times that has significantly increased dps? I don't think that there has been any addition that even remotely compares to the increase in healing and passive resists (which totally killed any positive steps you took with rebalancing the BFI doff and effectively reducing the 3-part borg proc by splitting the set).

The game has moved from a state where pressure and spike damage coexisted and both were valuable to a state where only spike damage has any meaning at all. Is this intentional?
I think this conversation should spin off to a new thread. Though I'm not sure how much more I contribute, getting more voices on the topic of "Spike vs. Pressure," and their relative viability, is something I'd be interested in hearing.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
"Play smart!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Kurland here...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,487
# 93
02-08-2013, 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
How exactly is massive healing over time helping against spikes? It only devalues pressure damage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what did you add to the game in recent times that has significantly increased dps? I don't think that there has been any addition that even remotely compares to the increase in healing and passive resists (which totally killed any positive steps you took with rebalancing the BFI doff and effectively reducing the 3-part borg proc by splitting the set).

The game has moved from a state where pressure and spike damage coexisted and both were valuable to a state where only spike damage has any meaning at all. Is this intentional?
To be fair the CritH rate has jumped a lot from consoles and rep system. Also, they've added dual proc weapons and upto 5 Tac console ships in the past year. Tet glider helps, but is kind of a wash w/ineffective shield stripping (sans the lobi mines and pets).

Though I agree, the end result is repair procs based on recieving CritH and some just being hit has made pressure damage a problem. There were also defensive boosts added in the last year in terms of boosting base HP stats, turnrates, Doff abilities. The STF gear also boosted defenses prior to the Fleet gear.

Not to mention it time gates new players from having the Damage and Repair/Resist/Regen abilties. It also creates a time gate that makes using multiple toons for variety of gameplay more difficult.

Getting back to the teamwork issue, people will PuG w/these passives and instead of properly learning to outfit and play in a team environment they will think Kirking it works. Then complain when they can't Kirk it vs a coordinated team that something is OP or UP. Instead of looking at the root cause.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,354
# 94
02-08-2013, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Naz, if you're willing and able to continue maintaining the first few posts of this thread, it will make tracking the issues, and informing the community about progress, that much easier.
That was the plan. Make both your lives easier and keep the PVP community informed.

Please can i ask that you only report issues in this thread and not discuss the issues. Making my life a bit difficult ..... ;(
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 95
02-08-2013, 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
To be fair the CritH rate has jumped a lot from consoles and rep system. Also, they've added dual proc weapons and upto 5 Tac console ships in the past year. Tet glider helps, but is kind of a wash w/ineffective shield stripping (sans the lobi mines and pets).

Though I agree, the end result is repair procs based on recieving CritH and some just being hit has made pressure damage a problem. There were also defensive boosts added in the last year in terms of boosting base HP stats, turnrates, Doff abilities. The STF gear also boosted defenses prior to the Fleet gear.

Not to mention it time gates new players from having the Damage and Repair/Resist/Regen abilties. It also creates a time gate that makes using multiple toons for variety of gameplay more difficult.

Getting back to the teamwork issue, people will PuG w/these passives and instead of properly learning to outfit and play in a team environment they will think Kirking it works. Then complain when they can't Kirk it vs a coordinated team that something is OP or UP. Instead of looking at the root cause.
Still though, adding up more CrtH doesnt necessarily mean more spike. Overall it simply means more DPS overall over a match by a specific person having the higher Critical Chance.

Spike should be refered to as something that increases your damage significantly in a relatively short amount compared to the match itself (APA, GDF, etc)

So realistically thats not really a massive increase in spike tbh.

-MT
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 96
02-08-2013, 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
To be fair the CritH rate has jumped a lot from consoles and rep system. Also, they've added dual proc weapons and upto 5 Tac console ships in the past year. Tet glider helps, but is kind of a wash w/ineffective shield stripping (sans the lobi mines and pets).

Though I agree, the end result is repair procs based on recieving CritH and some just being hit has made pressure damage a problem. There were also defensive boosts added in the last year in terms of boosting base HP stats, turnrates, Doff abilities. The STF gear also boosted defenses prior to the Fleet gear.

Not to mention it time gates new players from having the Damage and Repair/Resist/Regen abilties. It also creates a time gate that makes using multiple toons for variety of gameplay more difficult.

Getting back to the teamwork issue, people will PuG w/these passives and instead of properly learning to outfit and play in a team environment they will think Kirking it works. Then complain when they can't Kirk it vs a coordinated team that something is OP or UP. Instead of looking at the root cause.
Many of the damage options are actually rather humble compared to their healing/resists equivalents.

A fifth console is overrated; what killed you with five would've killed you anyway with four, you know? Criticals themselves are also quite mild in STO, with a base sev of only an extra 50% base. This is quite a world away from many games where severity can easily reach ~300% or more.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 97
02-08-2013, 07:46 PM
Why are polarons not on the list? They are the only energy type that has two drain procs, no? A non-stacking 5 second drain and up to 5 stackable instant drains.

Regarding Aceton Assimilators, I have yet to run tests on a multiple assimilators from multiple people. But, the individual tests seems to indicate that the radiation DOT and the radiation burst is the only thing that could be considered too strong, and the only people who think that are FAW, heavy torpedo, or mine spammers. If your entire strategy revolves around those type of spams, I do not feel sorry for you at all. The drain itself appears to be capped when it's from just one Captain, is there an example of a power that is capped for one captain, but stacks with another Captain? Serious question, I can't think of any at the moment.

From my tests:
1) Against a Captain with no Power Insulators (except from the MACO 2-piece set), the Assimilators drained 50% of their listed value. A second Assimilator did not stack a drain.

2) Against a Captain with 6 points in Power Insulators, the Assimilators was resisted 100% (even when two from the same player were deployed).

3) Against a Captain with no Power Insulators (except from the Jem'Hadar deflector), the first Assimilator drained nothing. A second Assimilator drained at 50% of the listed drain value. This test was performed recently, where as the previous tests were done months ago. Something might have changed?


For the SNB doff, why is this still considered too powerful? At the minimum, it can only activate every 15 seconds (prior to the nerf, pax's team was able to get it to proc every 7.5 seconds with 8 of these doffs...even with 15, the best you can get is every 15 seconds with 15 of these doffs). Also, it only strips 3 buffs, compared to all of them before.

Also, this DOFF is broken. This past week, my fleet mate and I tested a number of his procs, and we were not able to get this proc to work (even when he had 3 equipped). None of my buffs were stripped and I saw no immunity icon.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 98
02-08-2013, 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
Many of the damage options are actually rather humble compared to their healing/resists equivalents.

A fifth console is overrated; what killed you with five would've killed you anyway with four, you know? Criticals themselves are also quite mild in STO, with a base sev of only an extra 50% base. This is quite a world away from many games where severity can easily reach ~300% or more.
Passive critical severity is around 50-66%. But, you can get an additional 70% with critdx3 DHCs.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 99
02-08-2013, 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Why are polarons not on the list?
Because they are one of the better balanced procs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
For the SNB doff, why is this still considered too powerful?
Because it's a mini SNB.

In a DOFF.

You can slot three of them x5 for 15 of them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
At the minimum, it can only activate every 15 seconds (prior to the nerf, pax's team was able to get it to proc every 7.5 seconds with 8 of these doffs...even with 15, the best you can get is every 15 seconds with 15 of these doffs). Also, it only strips 3 buffs, compared to all of them before.
Yeah "only strips 3" buffs "only every 15s".


What could possibly be wrong with that?

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 200
# 100
02-08-2013, 11:07 PM
Slightly different from the discussions so far, but:

Issue: Crew longevity in combat
Crew seems to die far too easily, and be revived far too slowly under PvP conditions. I fly a 2500 crew Oddy; even with a purple Mk XII biofunction monitor + white Mk XI emergency force fields, a single kinetic-based opponent can easily keep the active crew number close to 0. Given that crew is a huge part in determining hull regeneration, and also helps to combat subsystem damage, it seems that crew is becoming disabled/dying far too quickly and not recovering quickly enough. (This might also tie into the Theta crew-killing problem.)

(I've heard stories of the purple Mk XII biofunction monitor keeping crew active on 50-crew escorts, but it's not doing that on this oddy. Plus, thematically, it seems a bit wrong; I know that my ship is crewed by redshirts, but if all of them are disabled/dead, then who's flying my ship?)
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