Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 251
04-01-2013, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
All +% bonuses are multiplicative including but not limited to APA, APO, GDF, and EPtW instead of additive like consoles, skill boosts, etc. I'm assuming that it is WAD because it has been that way since F2P.
Just because it was designed like that doesn't mean it isn't an issue. All I'm asking for is a dev pass on the combo since the output is so much greater than other combos. Ideally, APA would share the 15 second global cooldown with other attack patterns, but I'm not going out and out and suggesting that because this isn't a suggestion thread. It's not a discussion thread either but everyone insists on defending potential issues like this out of some sort of... idk, loyalty/elitism thing? 'Blah blah blah your build sucks you suck you're a horrible player there's nothing wrong with my super awesome tactical captain exclusive OP combo nope nope nope nope', and so on.

As opposed to, you know, letting the issue be advised by Cryptic. I mean if it's not an issue they'll say so, but all this... effort being made to prevent a player from bringing this issue up to them?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,718
# 252
04-01-2013, 10:15 AM
if tac buffs couldn't be stacked, things wouldn't be killable. you would have to significantly nerf spike healing too, how about all heals give each other a 15 second cooldown as well? sounds just as silly as some APA cooldown.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,247
# 253
04-01-2013, 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
Just because it was designed like that doesn't mean it isn't an issue. All I'm asking for is a dev pass on the combo since the output is so much greater than other combos. Ideally, APA would share the 15 second global cooldown with other attack patterns, but I'm not going out and out and suggesting that because this isn't a suggestion thread. It's not a discussion thread either but everyone insists on defending potential issues like this out of some sort of... idk, loyalty/elitism thing? 'Blah blah blah your build sucks you suck you're a horrible player there's nothing wrong with my super awesome tactical captain exclusive OP combo nope nope nope nope', and so on.

As opposed to, you know, letting the issue be advised by Cryptic. I mean if it's not an issue they'll say so, but all this... effort being made to prevent a player from bringing this issue up to them?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
APA doesn't share the Global cooldown for the same reason you can't get it on an Engineer or Sci...IOW it's supposed to stack with the other abilities.

that is ALSO why it has the longest individual cooldown of any of the attack patterns-on a Raptor for example, you can chain it in a tight furball the following way:

APA+Omega3=Initial strike
Omega1+EPS1=Evasion phase/breaking your target's support-man's tractor
APA+APB=Second hit or serves as another way to execute a first-strike.

Alternately, with a good team...

APA+APB+(from a support toon)APD=First strike.

APD stacks with the other patterns ONLY if you cast it on someone else-tried this, it works.


But that's aside the situation, I think I see the problem you're having, you seem to be under the misassumption that APA is just "Gap filler" between Omega cooldowns, and it's not-the CD for APA is longer than it is for ALL the other Attack patterns, including Omega III (Commander level ability).

Yes, the patterns STACK, they're supposed to, that's why APA has a longer coooldown time than the other Attack patterns, yet has less over-all benefit and power by itself than APO3, as well as a shorter duration. The trade-off is built into the power's design, which is to say, it's designed to enable a Tactical captain to get in that massive first or second strike killshot, by boosting his or her other abilities temporarily.

Now, I'll admit some other roles APA has include:

1. Allowing 2 slot Cruisers to have an attack pattern;
2. CAN be used to fill a gap between OTHER patterns on an Escort-once in a dogfight (if the dogfight lasts longer than that, you, as a Tac Captain, are screwed unless you've got a good team).

But the way the power works, its cooldown, its duration, the fact that it's limited ONLY to Tac captains, is to provide that short multiplicative burst that bores through the rickockulus level of spike heals in this game.

APA by itself is borderline useless, its duration is too short, the benefit by itself too low, cooldown's too long-it's only a benefit when you stack it with something else.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

A Festival of Blood and Fire!

Blaming PvP for nerfs is like blaming Eudromaeosauria for today's urban crime rates.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 471
# 254
04-01-2013, 11:27 AM
I found yesterday this thread and from the first page there is something that i believe shouldn't be enhanced

"24. Ability: Mask Energy Signature
Issue: I can't think of a use for this in any part of the game. The cloak's low value can be seen even by NPCs from far off
Status: Under review"

MES in combination with jam sensor and romulan boff in this moment almost gives a "battlecloak" for federation escorts.It happened not once but many times that the fed escort was almost at 0% hull and used this nice combo,run away from engagement and having human crew it was back in combat with 65% hull in a couple of seconds.So I propose to not enhance MES untill romulan and human boff's are not fixed first,and then a reevaluation of situation should be made again regarding MES

Edit : eventually a common shared cool down for jam sensor and mes would fix this behavior
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U

Last edited by dova25; 04-01-2013 at 11:35 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 255
04-01-2013, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
ARGUING
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
ARGUING

Guys, seriously.

If you care at all for the actual value this thread is providing, please take your argument to a new/larger thread and not continue to derail this one.


If you're unhappy with the way this thread functions create your own.

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 256
04-01-2013, 11:47 AM
Abilities: Attack Pattern Alpha, Go Down Fighting, Attack Pattern Omega, Emergency power to Weapons
Issue: The % damage bonuses are multiplicative with one another instead of additive. Two abilities both active giving +50% damage each increase damage by 125% instead of 100%. This strikes me as an oversight similar to when Tractor Beam Repulsars damage was boosted by two skills.


Better?
http://www.helpscout.net/75-customer...es-statistics/
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 257
04-01-2013, 11:49 AM
This thread should be reserved for actual problems, not people's individual (and usually misguided) vendettas on the way they think the game ought to be.
Behold, The Jorf Guide
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,501
# 258
04-01-2013, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
... Snip ...
If you're unhappy with the way this thread functions create your own.
The problem w/that is the Dev and the OP worked out this is the thread the Dev will focus on responding to player concerns. It's the one that gets the most attention. Further, this was initially intended to be a place where all PvPers express their concerns.

While I agree that this thread shouldn't be a place for hashing things out, it's also not the place for the OP to be a gatekeeper and sensor concerns of others based on subjective criteria which has happened. Also, the OP and others often are the ones who start the arguing, then turn right around and ask for others not to argue in the same post they were arguing in.

Quite frankly at this point I'd rather the thread be nuked than a small group think set of players have such impact on the Devs.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 259
04-01-2013, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
The problem w/that is the Dev and the OP worked out this is the thread the Dev will focus on responding to player concerns. It's the one that gets the most attention. Further, this was initially intended to be a place where all PvPers express their concerns.

While I agree that this thread shouldn't be a place for hashing things out, it's also not the place for the OP to be a gatekeeper and sensor concerns of others based on subjective criteria which has happened. Also, the OP and others often are the ones who start the arguing, then turn right around and ask for others not to argue in the same post they were arguing in.

Quite frankly at this point I'd rather the thread be nuked than a small group think set of players have such impact on the Devs.
I agree with this. Some may not see a problem with subnuke and boarding parties interacting in a multiplicative manner, others do. Unless I am wrong it has never been stated that the issue I and others have brought up is working as intended. That is apa and apo bonuses multiplying one another along with similar abilities. Also I heard a rumor that this is not how it worked at some point before F2P although I have no idea personally.
http://www.helpscout.net/75-customer...es-statistics/
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,718
# 260
04-01-2013, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Abilities: Attack Pattern Alpha, Go Down Fighting, Attack Pattern Omega, Emergency power to Weapons
Issue: The % damage bonuses are multiplicative with one another instead of additive. Two abilities both active giving +50% damage each increase damage by 125% instead of 100%. This strikes me as an oversight similar to when Tractor Beam Repulsars damage was boosted by two skills.


Better?
"correcting" something like this would require a total rebalanced of defense. at least a cutting in half of resistance, and nerfs to active healing. taking away the % buff would make tac's ability to deal damage best, like they should in all ships and every situation, about as unremarkable as an eng's ability to heal best is currently.

hey i wouldn't necessarily be against that completely, it would make eng captains and cruiser damage less irreverent, but it would require a total overhaul of everything. dont get your hopes up, what we have currently still functions, mostly.

apparently some people haven't noticed, but the balance between spike and healing is actually pretty good right now. it causes sci to be extreamly important too, instead of irreverent. there are several things still left out though, eng captains, and energy weapons that deal pressure damage. it would proboly be better to fix that, bring it up to par, then to nerf everything else around it.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 04-01-2013 at 01:58 PM.
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