Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 261
04-01-2013, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
it causes sci to be extreamly impotent too, instead of irreverent.

Impotent, or important?
Behold, The Jorf Guide
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 262
04-01-2013, 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Impotent, or important?

I'm pretty sure drunk meant "Important instead of irrelevant".

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,839
# 263
04-01-2013, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Impotent, or important?
i don't pay enough attention to the spell check suggestions lol.

that line of discussion should proboly be in a new thread if anyone wishes to debate it further
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 845
# 264
04-01-2013, 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dova25 View Post

Edit : eventually a common shared cool down for jam sensor and mes would fix this behavior
If you think that's a major concern, we may as well add it to the list.

I don't, for the record, but that's just my personal experience. KDF can do it with non-battle cloak too, and I don't see that on your suggestion- maybe jam sensors should share a cooldown with all stealth powers.

Oh, and things that make you faster too, so you can't use it to escape a fight.

Last edited by illcadia; 04-01-2013 at 02:15 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,839
# 265
04-01-2013, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
If you think that's a major concern, we may as well add it to the list.
given the cost in station powers, id say they deserve the simulated battle cloak.

you can do the same thing with the tier 5 rom active and a normal cloak or MES, or on a ship with battle cloak and ether jam or the tier 5 rom active you can basically battlecloak without dropping your shields. you can also use the tier 5 rom active right before a decloak alpha to make your attack completely invisible.

but is this really all a cause for concern? its all hardly game breaking
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,327
# 266 On Topic
04-01-2013, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
If you care at all for the actual value this thread is providing, please take your argument to a new/larger thread and not continue to derail this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
The problem w/that is the Dev and the OP worked out this is the thread the Dev will focus on responding to player concerns. It's the one that gets the most attention. Further, this was initially intended to be a place where all PvPers express their concerns.

While I agree that this thread shouldn't be a place for hashing things out, it's also not the place for the OP to be a gatekeeper and sensor concerns of others based on subjective criteria which has happened. Also, the OP and others often are the ones who start the arguing, then turn right around and ask for others not to argue in the same post they were arguing in.

Captains,

In regard to posting in this thread... there is a difference between a violation of etiquette and a violation of forum rules.

The opening post reasonably requested that people responding should: "keep discussions out of this thread as it is becoming a challenge to pick up all the issues you guys are posting. Please start an alternate thread if you wish to discuss anything further."

The forum rule that might apply in this case is the Spamming rule, which among other things defines any off-topic posts to be spam.

The broad topic is raising concerns having to do with Space PVP. That is the topic. The OP can request anything he wants, but if the posters are staying within the topic this is not grounds to consider their posts as a violation of the rules. Nobody has the right to dictate to others how they must post, as long as their posts do not violate PWE's rules.

However... seeing as how the author of the thread is trying to help collect useful feedback and has made a reasonable request to that effect, I would say that people who choose to ignore that may not have been very respectful of others and furthermore may be interfering with the effort to collect feedback.

I should point out that some level of debate about whether or not something is a real "concern", or an effort to refine what that concern really is, is not unreasonable. This is also feedback.

In the spirit of cooperation, I would ask posters to consider starting new threads if they want to discuss something in-depth. Then, if there is a general consensus you can easily bring it back here.

Either way, it's not breaking any forum rules, IMO. The OP can search this thread for posts with select keywords for the information he's looking for, if he wants to filter out some of the noise.

Lest anyone think I'm giving "those people" a free pass here, I'm not. Any other infraction of the rules can still be dealt with, and that includes "creating forum disturbances" under the Flaming and Trolling rules.

If these discussions rise to the level of creating a forum disturbance, expect moderation. Feel free to PM me if things are getting out of hand and I will investigate.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek

Last edited by bluegeek; 04-01-2013 at 02:54 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,340
# 267
04-01-2013, 03:41 PM
Ever wonder why PVP is in the state its in? This thread just summarised it for me. If I was a dev trying to help this community, I personally would have given up a long time ago.

I tried to do something good and positive for the community as a whole and hey, guess what? We screw it for ourselves again and again and again.

I've been asking the same question over and over again - What is balance? Can you give me an honest answer? No one has a clue what it is yet we keep saying "It's not balanced". Have the game creators given us a set of rule books for space PVP they are balancing to? Can we measure these "issues" against that rule book to say it's unbalanced? Not that I know of......
Yes, there are certain things that are just obvious, but on the whole, we know nothing.
If you guys are thinking about the community tournament at this point in time, I balanced the rules with "Fun" in mind. Nothing more, nothing less.

Those who complain the most, dont create any thread to achieve a positive outcome. Instead, they derail / twist other people's threads to suite their aims / desires / agenda. Hell, the tournament thread was evidence of that.

I'm done - If anyone wants to carry on, be my guest.

As Freddy said, "Another one bites the dust".

Good Game all, Good Game.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles

Last edited by naz4; 04-01-2013 at 03:48 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 845
# 268
04-01-2013, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
given the cost in station powers, id say they deserve the simulated battle cloak.

you can do the same thing with the tier 5 rom active and a normal cloak or MES, or on a ship with battle cloak and ether jam or the tier 5 rom active you can basically battlecloak without dropping your shields. you can also use the tier 5 rom active right before a decloak alpha to make your attack completely invisible.

but is this really all a cause for concern? its all hardly game breaking
Well I can't very well bring up what think is a legitimate issue, and then turn around and condemn something that I think is a very stupid/trolling post now can I?

If he thinks that using two or three powers to simulate a battle cloak, he can certainly submit that as an issue. The worst thing that happens is that Cryptic looks at it and go "lolno".

This isn't a thread to 'gate the devs' and filter out all the issues that an elite few don't want addressed, and the prevalence of that sort of behavior- the "We must only present issues we personally want fixed, and must 'hide' all other issues lest the devs fix/ruin the game addressing them" is very, very.... odd.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,839
# 269
04-01-2013, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Ever wonder why PVP is in the state its in? This thread just summarised it for me. If I was a dev trying to help this community, I personally would have given up a long time ago.

I tried to do something good and positive for the community as a whole and hey, guess what? We screw it for ourselves again and again and again.

I've been asking the same question over and over again - What is balance? Can you give me an honest answer? No one has a clue what it is yet we keep saying "It's not balanced". Have the game creators given us a set of rule books for space PVP they are balancing to? Can we measure these "issues" against that rule book to say it's unbalanced? Not that I know of......
Yes, there are certain things that are just obvious, but on the whole, we know nothing.
If you guys are thinking about the community tournament at this point in time, I balanced the rules with "Fun" in mind. Nothing more, nothing less.

Those who complain the most, dont create any thread to achieve a positive outcome. Instead, they derail / twist other people's threads to suite their aims / desires / agenda. Hell, the tournament thread was evidence of that.

I'm done - If anyone wants to carry on, be my guest.

As Freddy said, "Another one bites the dust".

Good Game all, Good Game.
this thread is hardly ruined by a little discussion. full blown debates should end up in their own threads though. the OP should be maintained to display just the facts, thats how the concentrated message gets across. and as long as there is not multi page debates on something, this thread is still easy to pick through

i have a completely open posting policy in my help thread, i want people posting builds, ideas, feedback, and questions all they want. are my builds and posts completely lost in the sea of all that? of course! but thats why i have a well maintained table of continence in the OP, so everything is completely accessible in spite of that.


you want to know what balance is? balance is a stale mate between 2 players of equal skill with 2 completely different things, thats extreamly hard to break. or needs some other force, with its own counters, to break it. that would be my design goal for creating balance
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Ever wonder why PVP is in the state its in? This thread just summarised it for me. If I was a dev trying to help this community, I personally would have given up a long time ago.

I tried to do something good and positive for the community as a whole and hey, guess what? We screw it for ourselves again and again and again.
Citation needed.

Quote:
I've been asking the same question over and over again - What is balance? Can you give me an honest answer? No one has a clue what it is yet we keep saying "It's not balanced". Have the game creators given us a set of rule books for space PVP they are balancing to? Can we measure these "issues" against that rule book to say it's unbalanced? Not that I know of......

Yes, there are certain things that are just obvious, but on the whole, we know nothing.
And more transparency from Cryptic would certainly be welcome, but also having open suggestions from the entire community, and not flipping out when people suggest stuff that you personally don't believe is an issue is core. Ultimately, we are just collating issues for Cryptic to review- it's up to them to determine if a change needs to be made- it's always been like that.

Quote:
Those who complain the most, dont create any thread to achieve a positive outcome. Instead, they derail / twist other people's threads to suite their aims / desires / agenda. Hell, the tournament thread was evidence of that.
Given what preceded this statement, I'd have to guess that you're referring to people discussing whether or not issues are issues, or presenting issues that YOU, PERSONALLY do not believe are issues.

But again, it is not our job nor our intent to PREVENT Cryptic from viewing issues on the basis that we do not consider them worthwhile- merely to collate issues for their consumption. That's why we're limiting discussion and just collecting those issues. Just - because a user, personally, has experienced something, or has a certain opinion on a possible issue does not mean that user, personally, should act to prevent those issues from being suggested- for whatever reason.

Yes, of course we'll end up with a lot of suggestions that people consider trolling, or stupid, or that threaten our precious precious balance. However all that supposition is assuming that Cryptic devs are idiots and incapable of personal determination, or analysis of issues.

You guys all seem to think that if these 'stupid' issues get through, they'll taint or ruin the game because the devs MIGHT actually decide "Hey, this actually seems to be an issue". So of course we must totally insult and bury any suggestions we don't like rather than, you know, letting Cryptic advise the issue.

While certainly thread derailling occurs, the PVP tourney thread was a great example of "I am the ultimate arbiter of what items/combos are fun and are not fun, and THOU SHALT NOT QUESTION ME FOR I AM GOD" on behalf of a lot of users. While I admit full well that you were right to tell them to get their own thread/tournament, your casual disregard for- and subsequently blanket statements made with regards to issues people brought up was frankly deplorable, and this resultant flipout seems to be an extension of that.

Quote:
I'm done - If anyone wants to carry on, be my guest.

As Freddy said, "Another one bites the dust".
.
Good Game all, Good Game.
I think this is a vast overreaction, and a lot of INTERNET DRAMA to little purpose. You seem like you're really just pulling your support of a thread you started and had stated an intent to be unbiased in the maintenance of, in order to provide support to your own points- effectively ransoming the thread. "I'm abandoning this thread because you didn't agree with me" and whathaveyou, which is in all honestly just *incredibly* petty on your behalf.

If your intent was to gather sympathy for poor misbegotten Naz and scorn for all those noobs who think that there are issues, that if fixed, might change the parts of the game I like, well I'm of the opinion that you've failed entirely.

The PVP space concerns directory will go on without you. But good show anyways.

Last edited by illcadia; 04-01-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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