Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 1 What is a non-escorts role?
02-01-2013, 12:47 AM
I've tried, failed, and this question has been asked before. I've thought on it a day or so, and I can't actually give more then a token "this is how it should work" answer.

A tank: There are indeed tank builds out there. They seemed to be hated with a passion. Every time I see one work, it is demolished the the latest bigger and better gun. That's not really my issue with the role of a tank. My issue is with what it accomplishes.

Because I'm at a loss for that one. The question becomes now what?

To do it you have to sacrifice everything else. My question becomes where exactly is that truly useful? I can seek and find a role, but I can't find a use that has a meaningful impact. You can tank, but for the sacrifices do it the end result is pitiful. Not just in raw damage potential (there is that). For the ability to actually stand out as a tank you don't get back what you gave up.

A Disabler: There does exist the ability to disable. However, for all it's shiny toys, they're a better title would be "inconveniencer". I can't find a confluence of ability that actually forces someone stop what they're doing in any truly threatening or frightful way.

Yes, they can make them selves know, but that's the sum total the ability to disable. Just to let you know someone out there does indeed try it, you might need to shift one or two things around.

I'm at a loss for that one. If I go this route, the question is again now what?

A Capital Ship: I would class carriers or some of the bigger cruisers here. This one doesn't exist, and probably should. There are indeed big and slow ships, but there isn't anything that trades speed and manoeuvrable for sheer bulk and big guns. Cruisers and carriers _are_ bigger, slower, and bulker. They don't trade that for fire power or total bulk in equal measure.

A cruiser is big and slow, but doesn't have big guns or bulk in equal measure.

Carrier are actually bigger, and slower then cruiser. Again, they don't have the bulk for functioning fire power though in equal measure or what they lost.

The Healer: There are healers, and exceptional ones! This one is a self forfilling prophesy though. A specialized healer means there's less pressure on the enemy. Meaning the enemy is around longer to do more damage. Meaning you need a healer.

...

Do a way with a healer and basic shield or hull heals mixed in with other rolls forfill a dedicated healers role. Removing the need of one all together.

-------

Don't get me wrong. I'm not ranting "OMG! NERF ESCORTS!!!!11!!111!", or demanding a super ship. I honestly look at the sum total of work accomplished by a escort, and ask:

"Ok, Why can't I accomplish my role with equal success?"

Last edited by resoundingenvoy; 02-01-2013 at 01:17 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,704
# 2
02-01-2013, 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post
Do a way with a healer and basic shield or hull heals mixed in with other rolls forfill a dedicated healers role. Removing the need of one all together.
Which basically removes the need for cruisers. Well done.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 3
02-01-2013, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Which basically removes the need for cruisers. Well done.
Well ... yes ...

... That is my problem. That is what I said. Focus on fire power, and you don't need a great deal of healing because the battle is over so quickly.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,849
# 4
02-01-2013, 01:13 AM
You know another version of a tank is a simple combat support role.....
Bear with me here..

If the objective is generaly to keep pressure on your enemy and break through their healing and defensive abilitys while also keeping them from doing the same, then what tanks need are powers that suppress the enemy in some way.

Yes I know that science has disabling and controll abilitys but im talking about supression. Keeping your enemy behind his defences while you setup your attack.

In infantry terms this would be you machine gunners job, to make sure your enemy keeps his head down and not shooting at you while you do what you need to.

So what if we had powers in the engineering and science trees that didnt simply debuff enemys but actualy reduced their combat potential for a period of time? Like a space version of supressing fire, or the tholian FAW/sub system disable powers. This could give tank ships a more important role in not only healing and attampting to hold agro but actively reducing the effectiveness of the enemy.

Imagine taking your beam boat turning broadside and leffing a grouf of enemy have it and instead of just damage you were slowing them or reducing their damage output allowing your escort teammates to go in and survive more and your science teammates to use their controll and debuff abilitys more effectively.


Mor on this sort of thing here http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=533021
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Last edited by disposeableh3r0; 02-01-2013 at 02:49 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 67
# 5
02-01-2013, 06:10 AM
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Aceton_Beam

Reduces enemy weapons damage/suppresses sort of, though the cooldown seems rather long. I imagine non cruisers do not slot it in due to limited engineering seating which they'd rather use on self preservation. Emergency power to shields and such.

Last edited by chookin; 02-01-2013 at 06:16 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 6
02-01-2013, 06:25 AM
Quote:
What is a non-escorts role?
It's whatever you want it to be. My Fed Tac has a whole bunch of ships and the one I like to fly the most is my Fleet Excelsior running Advanced Phaser Beam Arrays and the Omega Torp/Beam/Console.

I out-DPS my teammates, I tank, I heal and I have a great time doing it.

KDF-side, my Eng flies a K't'inga Retrofit equipped with [Borg] Antiproton DHCs - even without the Tac Captain buffs he frequently pulls aggro from Tac/Escorts and is as close to indestructible as you can get in this game.

My KDF Sci flies a Kar'fi built to turn and equipped with Advanced S'Kuls (sometimes Elite Scorps) and Romulan Plasma DHCs - she frequently parses as the top DPS-dealer in Elite STFs whilst throwing out high-Aux Gravity Well 3's.

The Tank/Healer/DPS mechanic in STO is broken, and most likely will never be fixed but whilst some may see that as a negative, I see it as enabling me to do whatever I find the most fun - and I *hate* Escorts
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,005
# 7
02-01-2013, 06:45 AM
You mind posting a detailed build of your Excelsior? I've been wanting to outfit one for my Tac Captain. I'm curious how you're set up with Boff powers and what synergies you have going between weapons/powers/gear that make that work. If you don't mind opening your black bag, that is. Would probably help demonstrate for the purposes of this constant cruiser debate what a working DPS cruiser setup looks like. I admit to not being able to figure it out myself.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 61
# 8 Dps
02-01-2013, 06:47 AM
;( Most of them can be overcome with just DPS. unlike most games were you must have a healer, Tank, etc just escorts work fine.
"Of course you know, this means war!" Bugs Bunny
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 9
02-01-2013, 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwave85 View Post
You mind posting a detailed build of your Excelsior? I've been wanting to outfit one for my Tac Captain. I'm curious how you're set up with Boff powers and what synergies you have going between weapons/powers/gear that make that work. If you don't mind opening your black bag, that is. Would probably help demonstrate for the purposes of this constant cruiser debate what a working DPS cruiser setup looks like. I admit to not being able to figure it out myself.
I'd be happy to - next time I'm online I'll get all the details and post them here
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Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 293
# 10
02-01-2013, 06:51 AM
You gotta think outside the box mate. everything you ask for is already possible with the right combination of weapons/skills etc.
Try turrets. Flow Caps, scatter volley. fire for procs. continuous fire ftw.
There is a way to make it happen, Go Tric mines w spread, chroniton mines, Breen Transphasic torps. Something that works together. Dropping 4 trics w dispersal beta 3 can be devastating to an enemy team if you've a sci 'n an escort working to bring down their shields.
There is a way to make it happen.
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