Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 802
# 141
02-03-2013, 05:40 PM
Of course it is way OP, its a better peregrine fighter in the show, and not the uebership of doom. It simply has no place outside of fighters and shuttles. It does not belong as escort at all.

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
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[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 142
02-03-2013, 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
lol then bring it son, I will show you what it takes. From the sounds of it your just a button smashing noob anyways. Let us skool on how its done. You seem to think that just because someone has a Jem bug then can instantly kill you or are OP'ed. The Steamrunner is way more OP than a bug in terms or healing. epts1x2 and 2rsp. Really now, thats way to OP compared to the Jem bug. Your just hatin because a skilled player in a Jem bug can pop you just about every time.
Bring your best 5 and we will love to skool you on PvP.
Think VERY carefully about what you just said: it translates (reading for content) as "It's not severely OP, and to prove it, we're going to take and beat the crap out of someone who SAID it's OP, using it!"


Which is my point, and the point of the majority of this thread-it's OP to the point you don't NEED skill to win, just autofire and steering.

Everything else sacrifices SOMETHING for a limited advantage-the Bugship sacrifices NOTHING and has the advantages of the best of two classes of ships. THAT is the point you're missing.

BoPs in PvP: Sacrifice everything for attack and immediate self-repair. To a limited extent, Escorts and Raptors do the same thing. Tissue paper hulls, see? Crap shield modifiers, see?? means that while a BoP might have four seating positions for Bridge officers, and a Battlecloak, (which is a great way to die when the fedball spams minefields, btw) it has to devote ALL OF THEM to either attack, or shielding.

Doesn't leave a lot of room for fancy sci powers, crowd control, debuffs, etc-the Norgh can sometimes get away with a basic debuff, but most of it is attack patterns or weapons boosts with HE and EPS if it looks like it's going to rain plasma.

Escorts usually end up with TSS and EPS for defensive items.

Cruisers are sharply limited on Tactical skills, have poor-to-mediocre turn rates, and even KDF BC's have a hard time keeping a target lined up if he's even half-ass awake, and both BC's and BoPs have less weapons output than a Bugship, which has near-BC hull, plus Fed cruiser shield modifiers, PLUS Bird of Prey turn rates AND Uni slots.

Then, there's the Bugship-which doesn't NEED to spend every slot it has on "Keep me alive a few seconds longer", it's got the speed and turn-rate, shield modifier, and hull to be able to pick the really NEAT stuff without much concern. you can get AWFUL funky in one of those without compromising your basic functions or screwing your team by dying a lot.

which is why it doesn't require tactics, doesn't require much skill, either-it does the work FOR THE USER.

so, when you sit there claiming it takes skill to drive a Bugship...

no, it doesn't. You may BE skilled, but that's subjective-bugships don't require it, unlike just about everything else out there, they do the work for the user.

Put yet another way...

"Would Turkish RP Heroes EVER field a team of 5 in Arena or Ker'rat, without a Jem'Hadar Attack ship on the lineup?"

Answer's probably "No, they're not stupid."
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Last edited by patrickngo; 02-03-2013 at 06:39 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 143
02-03-2013, 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
I dont need a bug to pop you, all I need is a shuttle. Last time I checked the bug ship did not have a lt.cmd sci slot, so where these magic abilities your talking about coming from? You don't have anything extra to spare.

Everything in a bug is the same as an escort, you building to stay alive for everything no connected to damage.

EDIT: Yes the TERPS did field a team of 4 shuttles and 1 recluse and we pwnd everyone in kerate.

When will this thread just die. Its so full of fail. Every time I pop somone in a gud its this, but if I am ina defiant or Steamrunner no one says anything. Being in a bug also seems to make you an instant target in pug games, which I am fine with. It makes it more fur for me that way.

Last edited by polie05; 02-03-2013 at 07:02 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 144
02-03-2013, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
I dont need a bug to pop you, all I need is a shuttle. Last time I checked the bug ship did not have a lt.cmd sci slot, so where these magic abilities your talking about coming from? You don't have anything extra to spare.

Everything in a bug is the same as an escort, you building to stay alive for everything no connected to damage.
But an Escort HAS TO, on the bug, it's OPTIONAL. a 'scort has to equip and man just to get UP TO the level most cruisers have in sheilding-a Bugship doesn't have to do that. An Escort (unless you count BoPs as escorts, and why not? they're turny and fairly graceful...) has to use Attack patterns to match what a Bugship does without them, sometimes running weapons on batteries (or engines on batteries) to keep up with what a Bug does WITHOUT spending consumables.

which means the consumables a bug DOES spend, are icing on the top, not the main meal, can you dig that?


a bugship doesn't NEED skill to be effective-what minor sacrifice is made on it, is of a sort that is, basically, supernumerary to its function, as in not a big deal or serious handicap.

It's got the holy trio of armored warfare: Speed, Armor(Protection-in this case Shields+Hull), and Weapons-with no sacrifices anywhere in the design and more than any of it's "Faction Pure" equivalents.

As for a shuttle fight: those are just fun-what do you run on the shuttle end? (not spec, just what hull)
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 145
02-03-2013, 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post


A Jem bug has to do the same thing, we are forced to make our ships as powerful and as possible. Turn rate is NOT king in team PvP. If a pilot in a fleet patrol or defiant has to change there build or skill set to be competitive with a Jem bug, is that not a good thing? We are forcing you to be a better pilot and gamer. You should tank skilled bug ship players for helping you better yourself as a Tac player in an escort. Also how are its weapons any different? All escorts can run phasers, polarons, or whatever flavor it is this week.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 146
02-03-2013, 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
the greater turn rate of the JHAS is an advantage only in a 1vs1 scenario... in a many vs many scenario the bug ships is disadvantaged by its worse shields. In a 1 vs 2 scenario I win only if the 2 opponents do not collaborate... else my better turn rate is useless.
turn rate is more then just 1v1, the better the turn rate the easier to get your guns on a weak facing. wtf does worse sheilds even mean? at base the jem has better sheild points and better regen then a defaint.

Last edited by broken1981; 02-03-2013 at 07:42 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 147
02-03-2013, 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
A Jem bug has to do the same thing, we are forced to make our ships as powerful and as possible.
you did kinda convince me. 20 shuttles just came after my bug ship and poped me wtf? polie me and you both have jems. ill kill you in my bug ship if you ran a defaint. if im in my defaint and you in ur bug i will get poped.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 460
# 148
02-03-2013, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
at base the jem has better sheild points and better regen then a defaint.
the FTER has .99 the bug ship has 1... 0.1% difference is ridiculous, even because the FTER has 2 science consoles.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 149
02-03-2013, 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
the FTER has .99 the bug ship has 1... 0.1% difference is ridiculous, even because the FTER has 2 science consoles.
so its almost a 2k difference. but again who cares about ur sci consoles. most tacts that i know put uni consoles in sci slots.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,562
# 150
02-03-2013, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
A Jem bug has to do the same thing, we are forced to make our ships as powerful and as possible. Turn rate is NOT king in team PvP. If a pilot in a fleet patrol or defiant has to change there build or skill set to be competitive with a Jem bug, is that not a good thing? We are forcing you to be a better pilot and gamer. You should tank skilled bug ship players for helping you better yourself as a Tac player in an escort.
wow, I can't think of anything...rude enough that wouldn't be a violation of forum rules. WOW what arrogance.

Let's try this on a simpler level. NO, they DON'T, and I don't need to "Thank" them, either. Check this out: when a Bugship's on the field, the right strategy is to have one on your team too-minus that, it's time to decide whether to log out, or grit your teeth and focus on his buddies-because that's the options-sure, a full TEAM can take a Bugship-and lose 3 kills to one doing it, Or they can focus-fire his friends, and maybe, just MAYBE lose only 1-2 per kill (because his friends are usually going to be softer kills that don't fight back as well, and can't just zip away as fast as he can to recover.) this second option is successful in Pugs or Ker'rat about 50% of the time.

Of course, that doesn't work against premades made up of Bugships. Then, the only rational option is to log out of the instance, unless you're masochistic.

The Feds have a couple of designs that come closer than anything else to matching the Bugships-but they're gimped in various ways, there IS NO KLINGON ship that can line up. No Raptor with 5 consoles, nor a Bop with a Shield mod of 1.0, (or five consoles), and the Bort's basically a big target in a field with Bugs crawling on it.

Which brings me back to the point of this whole thread-when a SPECIFIC HULL is essential, and a team that doesn't have one is going to lose against a team that does, then it is, by definition, Overpowered and unbalanced.

WHen a hull, a specific hull, not just a class, but a specific DESIGN requires a team to take it down? it's overpowered. Pretty it up all you want, tell yourself what a great dude you are for having it, and for how you "push" people who'd probably already been working on designs and techniques (most of whom were already working on them before you even entered their lives...dur.) But the fact remains-you're not winning on SKill, you're winning on GEAR. It's like using a Fleet Somraw on a T3 FedScort.

Quote:
Also how are its weapons any different? All escorts can run phasers, polarons, or whatever flavor it is this week.
5 Weapons Consoles, and the turn-rate to keep them on EVERYTHING, even unbuffed. Remember, shots that hit, count, shots that miss or can't be fired, don't.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Last edited by patrickngo; 02-03-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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