Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 191
02-07-2013, 05:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus614 View Post
as we all know getting mark XII purple weapons with high ACC and purple tac consoles is very expensive, i didnt come near sinking a grand but i spent enough and i deserve to have a nice ship

"I have spent time/money/sacrifice therefore I deserve to be better". At some level, you believe that you have earned the right to easy victories because of your investments. This kind of thinking is the complete opposite of competitive gaming. In any official competition, all players are provided with equivalent equipment. Be it a Starcraft 1v1 or the Olympic games, it is a fundamental part of the rules that all competitors start with the same tools so that the only thing being challenged is their skill. If you can buy an edge in equipment, then the game ceases to be fair and the winner cannot in any reasonable fashion be considered more skilled or more worthy of winning.

Really what they need to do for this game is to divorce PVE equipment grinding from PVP competition. Every PVP player should have the same options available to them. But they won't do that because some of the biggest spenders in the game are people dropping hundreds of dollars to gain that 5% edge or unique ship/console and stomp on people who didn't spend as much.

Meh.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 192
02-07-2013, 05:34 AM
actually all players have the choice to spend/grind so they are on equal terms, cryptic did provide the ability to grind. I know I have 5 people in our fleet and we do just fine with star bases.


and a jemmy by its self isnt what makes it that much better, its the expensive gear we chose to buy.


but if this game were even, then grind for the stuff you wish.
-Spells

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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 193
02-07-2013, 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
"I have spent time/money/sacrifice therefore I deserve to be better". At some level, you believe that you have earned the right to easy victories because of your investments. This kind of thinking is the complete opposite of competitive gaming. In any official competition, all players are provided with equivalent equipment. Be it a Starcraft 1v1 or the Olympic games, it is a fundamental part of the rules that all competitors start with the same tools so that the only thing being challenged is their skill. If you can buy an edge in equipment, then the game ceases to be fair and the winner cannot in any reasonable fashion be considered more skilled or more worthy of winning.

Really what they need to do for this game is to divorce PVE equipment grinding from PVP competition. Every PVP player should have the same options available to them. But they won't do that because some of the biggest spenders in the game are people dropping hundreds of dollars to gain that 5% edge or unique ship/console and stomp on people who didn't spend as much.

Meh.


ah the "you spend money so you have an edge argument"

well unfortunately this is how real life works, you do what you have to , to get ahead,,,yes i have dropped money,,and ive also grinded my butt off.

Im also tired of people saying cause you have a bug ship your going to dominate,,,that is BS to the fullest. I have had my rear end handed to me in my bug as well ive dished out beatings too.

I just got beat 5-4 a couple days ago by someone in a cloaked fleet defiant, his piloting was a bit better than mine giving him an edge and he had good consoles on that ship so its not like i overpowered him by some large margin. How bout a scii captain in a vesta you dont think thats OP? I have a fleet mate that has one he is a sci captain,,,he stomps me one on one every single time, im lucky to get 1 kill on him.

This is no different than sports,,,people with money pay for the best equipment and trainers as well as work their butts off to get in the best shape and practice all day long to be the best at what they do,,,,i spent money and i grind as well so i expect to have something good to show for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 194
02-07-2013, 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by srspells View Post
actually all players have the choice to spend/grind so they are on equal terms, cryptic did provide the ability to grind. I know I have 5 people in our fleet and we do just fine with star bases.


and a jemmy by its self isnt what makes it that much better, its the expensive gear we chose to buy.


but if this game were even, then grind for the stuff you wish.
-Spells

exactly

nobody made warfare "fair" if your enemy outnumbers you, or has better stuff than you have to come up with an intelligent tactic to defeat them,,,you dont see soldiers on the battlefield going "hey man this isnt fair your country has more money and bought better weapons"

Anybody can grind and get a JHAS (yes i know it would take a LOT of grinding) anybody can grind and get good equipment/weapons

i have met people not only on this game but also a game called evony i used to play who never spent a dime but grinded their butts off and were difficult to beat.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 195
02-07-2013, 05:56 AM
Games are not real life, nor are they warfare. By your logic you'd be ok playing chess with someone who has a few extra queens on the board.

THAT ISN'T THE POINT OF PVP!

(You're thinking of WvW - Wallet vs Wallet)
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 232
# 196
02-07-2013, 06:07 AM
Again, you are trying to justify a pay to win scheme, because you waste money on lockbox ships that are at the least 50% superior to the highest end fleet ships. U are also wasting money on cstore crap for consoles. This is the definition of pay to win, the bane of gaming. Of course this only becomes a problem in pvp,, and unfortunately this money is spent for pvp and the purchased ability to have a great advantage.

Just realize that any ego boost you get is in your own mind, becausr most people will give you (the pay to win scrub) no credit or respect when they recognise the ship in question and its pilot are made of cheese. I blame sto for this, its sad really, coulda had some decent pvp
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 194
# 197
02-07-2013, 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by srspells View Post
actually all players have the choice to spend/grind so they are on equal terms, cryptic did provide the ability to grind. I know I have 5 people in our fleet and we do just fine with star bases.


and a jemmy by its self isnt what makes it that much better, its the expensive gear we chose to buy.


but if this game were even, then grind for the stuff you wish.
-Spells


while this is true on paper, in reality its far from it. while we all have the ability to grind di credits or zen for the bug and the gear it would take well over a year to do it realistically because of real life interference. plus what about the people with out the time or the money? should they get screwed over because they have long hours at a job or lack of money? gear helps but there isn't a massive game breaking difference between MKX and MKXII so i don't consider that a issue since there is no way to realistically balance that. but the bug makes a huge diff i took my pos setup from my diffiant when i got the bug and i was wiping people that beat my diffiant with ease and these were not average pvp players. given the significant differences between the bug and others something needs to be done and since escorts already dominate the game it should prob be Nerfed in someway.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 220
# 198
02-07-2013, 06:24 AM
JHAS is fine, i have it but don't fly it often because i find my fleet hoh'sus and temp destroyer much more versale and fun Only really good pilots can make JHAS ultimate weapon and we all know them by names and how to deal with. I have seen alot of unskilled players in bugship, poor things... Ship is powerfull yes but its all about pilot\captain in my opinion.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 194
# 199
02-07-2013, 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarxidejacko View Post
JHAS is fine, i have it but don't fly it often because i find my fleet hoh'sus and temp destroyer much more versale and fun Only really good pilots can make JHAS ultimate weapon and we all know them by names and how to deal with. I have seen alot of unskilled players in bugship, poor things... Ship is powerfull yes but its all about pilot\captain in my opinion.


true but even the best can be outmatched by a better ship when the ship is almoast a garenteed victory vs 80% of the player base something needs ajustment
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2
# 200
02-07-2013, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverashes1 View Post
while this is true on paper, in reality its far from it. while we all have the ability to grind di credits or zen for the bug and the gear it would take well over a year to do it realistically because of real life interference. plus what about the people with out the time or the money? should they get screwed over because they have long hours at a job or lack of money? gear helps but there isn't a massive game breaking difference between MKX and MKXII so i don't consider that a issue since there is no way to realistically balance that. but the bug makes a huge diff i took my pos setup from my diffiant when i got the bug and i was wiping people that beat my diffiant with ease and these were not average pvp players. given the significant differences between the bug and others something needs to be done and since escorts already dominate the game it should prob be Nerfed in someway.
Oh, so you don't want to put resources, work or time in, and you want the same gear that the guys that do? Wow. I mean WOW lol. Sure, JHAS currently and objectively is the best escort ship in the game. But so was the defiant before JHAS was introduced. Was defiant free? Was it the same as any other ship in the game? Of course not. It was better. It had more console slots and better turn rate. That's why ppl wanted it. And paid for it. Or put in work and time. Did ppl cry "oh cryptic you screwed us over with that defiant ship bwaaaa"? Or "you pay-to-win- sons of borg, you paid to win"? Or "Defiant is better than my <insert random T3 ship here> and it needs to be nerfed"? Probably. Dunno. Wasn't there.

So is JHAS currently the best escort ship in the game? Sure. Until the next best thing comes along. Is it OP? Does it win in all circumstances and scenarios? Nope, not by far. In fact, as some have already pointed out it's probably about 60% captain, 40% ship. A lacking one or the other means you'll try another time. Does it have a counter? Sure. Get a cruiser or a sci ship and tank it for a nice draw if you like. Or put together a winning build for some other ship. Or put in resources, work and time and buy it. You can do it by putting in any two of the aforementioned. So either do that, or cry us all a river.

Oh and btw, I'm strictly free-to-play. And yes, I like my JHAS. Except I like my BOP on my other toon even more - no BOPs for feds tho, so JHAS yes please.

Edit: And please don't think JHAS is invincible vs other escorts. it's not. I know how to take it out, even an advanced build that has superior fire power, tanking ability and turn rate. If you don't, that's not my problem - as they say, learn to play.

Last edited by fxadb; 02-07-2013 at 08:44 AM.
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