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Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,411
(I hope this will make sense. Did my best.)

Now that I've found the somewhat "consistent" warp speed chart and a star chart showing real vs. ST locations ... I'm left wondering: How do you work out the distance and travel-time between star systems (that is, not just between Earth and your destination elsewhere in the four quadrants)? I have yet to find this anywhere on STO's website or elsewhere on the Internet.

Just as an example: If I needed a character's ship to travel at Warp 7 from New Romulus to Vulcan, what is the distance traveled and how long would it take at that speed? What if they went faster -- or slower? Not being an astrophysicist, I have no idea how to figure it out.

Is there any way for someone to set up a chart (however imperfect) that I could borrow, or do I have to make up my own chart, fudging where needed, and pray that reader(s) don't roll their eyes at it? It could have the departure star system in a vertical column on the left, with the arrival star system in a horizontal row on the top, and then have the distance/warp speed for each trip in the grid itself (LY# for distance in light-years, a slash, then the WS# for warp speed, another slash, and then DD# for days, WW# for weeks, MM# for months, and YY# for years (just for example, Earth to Vulcan: LY20 / WS7 / WW1 DD3, would mean 20 light-years at Warp Speed 7 takes 1 week, 3 days; longer distances and travel-times would be YY MM WW DD; shorter ones might be DD or even just HH# for how many hours)). Of course, if one had a Borg-modified impulse engine, there would have to be a chart for faster-than-Warp-10. If one traveled at Warp Speed 20.23 (or 34.43 for that matter), for example, how much more distance would be traveled and how much less travel-time would it take?

This kind of chart may not be realistic/practical, but if it were, I think that it would be incredibly useful for an author of ST fan fiction. And might finally provide at least a temporary fix all those continuity errors that ST series/movies and their multitude of authors have been prone to when trying to work out how long it takes a ship to travel from place to place in the ST-verse.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,180
# 2
10-29-2013, 03:09 PM
If you've got access to a copy of the Okudas' "Star Trek Encyclopedia", there's a pretty good (Though out of date with Transwarp and Slipstream and whatnot) Warp Speed chart in there.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 167
# 3
10-29-2013, 03:16 PM
I've worked out min/max average LY per day rates based on the linear stardates mentioned in episode as it relates to known fixed points.

You can read about it more here: http://malsmaps.wordpress.com/2013/0...of-enterprise/

but the summary is:

10 LY ?min/max? at ENT/TOS/TAS scale ? min: 3.6 max: 43.2
(works out to min/max 0.36/4.32 LY per day)

10 LY ?min/max? at TNG scale ? min: 19 max: 49
(or min/max 1.9/4.9 LY per day)

Keep in mind that isn't going to match up to any specific "warp speed" method, it takes the stardates as linear time introduced in TNG and figures differences in known points in real space ...there is a lot of wiggle room involved because these are "averages over distance and time" not direct "fastest rate to point B from point A" ...

However -- the "max" rate would be the closer to direct travel from A to B and the "min" rate would be closer to "more goofing about between point A and B"

In the overall though, basically anything you do or say can be explained in a story, which is exactly what the writers did to further their plots as necessary...don't feel overly constrained to consistency.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,546
# 4
10-29-2013, 03:41 PM
Memory Alpha has a table of various warp speeds and travel times in the warp factor article, and equations to calculate your own.

As I noted in chapter six of Bait and Switch (the fic, not the Foundry mission), the TNG Technical Manual states that up to warp 9, speed = warp factor^(10/3) * speed of light. Above warp 9, your speed is a vertical asymptote, approaching infinite speed as you approach warp 10. Actually reaching warp 10 is impossible. If you want to have characters traveling extremely long distances in short periods of time and be consistent with this scale, you need to be pushing warp 10 hard, and it's likely extremely hard on the warp core.

TNG was surprisingly consistent about following this on the rare occasions they gave you enough information to check the math. DS9 pretty much ignored the equation. VOY, based on Janeway's line in "Caretaker" about how long it'll take to get home, seems to use a different scale entirely that works out to about half as fast as the TNG scale.
Vadm. Kanril Eleya, U.S.S. Andraste, Strike Team Alpha

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Last edited by starswordc; 10-29-2013 at 03:43 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,411
# 5
10-29-2013, 06:02 PM
TM: I'll try to find a copy of it (used being more likely than new, and more affordable than new). Anything to make the math (or arithmetic) easier for me. I'm not a math/science person. I'm a words/music/art person.

RM: The problem I currently have is less about warp speed and how far a ship travels at different speeds than about how far one star is from another. For instance, how far is Nimbus III from New Romulus? I have no idea. If I knew how many light-years each side of each square on the Memory Alpha's stellar grid map was, I'd have a better idea (but I didn't seem to find anything there explaining stellar distances on that map). I'm not looking for perfect consistency, but something that makes sense. For instance, in 2154 (or was it 2153?), it took 4 days for Captain Archer's USS Enterprise to travel from Earth to Vulcan at Warp 5. But would it take 4 days from New Romulus to Nimbus III at the same speed? If I had a ruler, I could at least convert inches/centimeters to light-years on the stellar grid map at Memory Alpha and then use their equation for speed vs. distance traveled. In 2152, which is when my main character is currently at in my story, I don't think ships could travel faster than Warp 5 yet. But in 2409, the overall time period, there are Warp speeds past 10, especially with Borg augmented technology.

SSC: I've already bookmarked the webpage you referred me to. I found it in another thread on this website. As I said above (in this message), I need to know how many light-years between stars before I can use the equation at Memory Alpha. I don't even know how far Qo'noS is from New Romulus or Earth or DS9. It's not like opening an atlas and using the bar scale for miles/inch or km/centimeter.

Last edited by philipclayberg; 10-29-2013 at 06:06 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,180
# 6
10-29-2013, 07:34 PM
Well, if I'm reading this stuff right, part of it is that there's only two constants; Warp One is the Speed of Light, Warp Ten CANNOT be reached (at least, not without Transwarp and/or Slipstream, appearantly).

To quote the Star Trek Encyclopedia;

"By the 24th century, a new warp-factor scale was in use that employed an asymptotic curve, placing Warp Ten as an infinate value. Under the new scale, the Galaxy-class Enterprise-D had a normal cruising speed of warp 6 (392 times light speed, about warp 7.3 under the old system), and a maximum normal velocity of warp 9.2 (about 1649 times light speed, equivilent to warp 11.8 in the "old" system)."


Considering that Voyager was supposed to have more effiecient engines and warp core and had a maximum warp speed of 9.97, which by the TNG era chart would be higher than the TNG-era 9.9 which shuts the engines down automatically after ten minutes and 0.02 below 9.99 which would require nearly infinate power by the TNG-era scale, it's probably safe wto conclude henever they create more effecient Warp Cores and whatnot, they alter the charts.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,546
# 7
10-29-2013, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipclayberg View Post
SSC: I've already bookmarked the webpage you referred me to. I found it in another thread on this website. As I said above (in this message), I need to know how many light-years between stars before I can use the equation at Memory Alpha. I don't even know how far Qo'noS is from New Romulus or Earth or DS9. It's not like opening an atlas and using the bar scale for miles/inch or km/centimeter.
Oh, I see what you're saying.

What I've been doing is using the maps on realmalize's website and combining it with geometry and factor-label. The map coordinates are in light-years, so use the distance formula for 2D coordinates to find out how far apart they are in LY. Then you plug in the numbers as needed and solve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbomagnus View Post
Well, if I'm reading this stuff right, part of it is that there's only two constants; Warp One is the Speed of Light, Warp Ten CANNOT be reached (at least, not without Transwarp and/or Slipstream, appearantly).
This is just me, but I still interpret warp 10 as impossible even with transwarp and slipstream. As long as you're taking a non-zero, finite amount of time to travel somewhere, your speed (distance / time) is not infinite, therefore you aren't traveling at warp 10.
Vadm. Kanril Eleya, U.S.S. Andraste, Strike Team Alpha

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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,546
# 8
10-29-2013, 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
Then you plug in the numbers as needed and solve.
I'm gonna go ahead and give you an example from Bait and Switch. Between chapters 3 and 4 the Bajor travels from Deep Space 9 to the Malon System at warp 9. On this map Deep Space 9 is at about (-57, -33), and the Malon System is at (-42, -35).

Use the distance formula. sqrt[(-57 - -42)^2 + (-33 - -35)^2] = 15.133 light-years

Convert to meters. 15.133 LY = 1.4317E17 meters, from here

Now the warp equation. warp 9^(10/3) * 3E8 m/sec = 4.5491E11 m/sec

Solve for time in seconds. 1.4317E17 m * (1 sec / 4.5491E11 m) = 314,718.5962 sec

Convert to a more useful unit of time. 314,718.5962 sec = 3.6 days.
Vadm. Kanril Eleya, U.S.S. Andraste, Strike Team Alpha

Useful Links for Foundry Writers | "Bait and Switch" -- Fed Foundry project, Part 1 rewards-qualified!
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Last edited by starswordc; 12-08-2013 at 01:31 PM. Reason: link fix
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,200
# 9
10-30-2013, 06:40 AM
For slipstream velocity, I use this text Sander233 wrote in The Road to Ruin as a guideline:

Quote:
"We'll be dropping out of the slipstream into normal warp in just a minute, Captain," Frank Grimes told Amanda Palmer on his viewer. "I'm sure your long-range sensors are better than ours. As soon as we're back in normal space you'll need to look ahead to see what's waiting for us in the Moab system."

"Understood."

"One light year from the Moab binary," Lt. T'aalb reported. "Point-seven, point-six, point-five-"

"Cut the slipstream drive," Grimes ordered. The bluish tunnel collapsed, spitting the two ships into normal space just outside the twin stars' magnetic field. "Take us down to warp two until we figure out what's going on in there."
I interpret that to mean a tenth of a light year per second, thus a light year in ten seconds.

At those kinds of speeds, the galaxy becomes a very small place
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,546
# 10
10-30-2013, 07:29 AM
Close enough. The actual figure based on VOY: "Hope and Fear" is 1/12 LY/sec (based on the episode stating they went 300 LY in an hour, before the field collapsed).
Vadm. Kanril Eleya, U.S.S. Andraste, Strike Team Alpha

Useful Links for Foundry Writers | "Bait and Switch" -- Fed Foundry project, Part 1 rewards-qualified!
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