Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,825
# 21
02-05-2013, 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
All I can write about this is caveat emptor. Even if you can verify that a fleet has the ability to "sell" you the ship, there is absolutely no way to verify that they will "sell" you the ship.
I offer you and any other prospective buyers the opportunity to meet me somewhere in game and see my T5 Fleet Ship, and the fact I am not in a T5 Fleet.

As I already stated, I too was suspicious beforehand. Two things swayed my mind:

1) I was allowed to see the Fleet Status before paying anything, and check that there were enough provisions.

2) During this period I took a look at the leaderboard and saw that the seller had a very high contribution to that fleet, numbering several millions of fleet credits. This told me that they were not some scammer but a person who is devoted to their fleet, and probably gave a good amount of time and resources into getting it to T5.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 22
02-05-2013, 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
I have, right now, a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit I purchased from a genuine seller with a genuine tier 5 shipyard fleet. I don't blame you for being suspicious, I was too. I was allowed to verify that the fleet was tier 5 before being promoted and paying my fee. But there are tier 5 shipyard fleets out there. Just make sure they let you preview the shipyard status before paying anything.
I did exactly the same thing.
At first i was very suspicius, but curious also. I temporary joined that fleet and checked if those ships where availlable.
I am very satisfied with my Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit. And since everybody gets what they want i would happily do so again.


I absolutely hate the Galaxy class slow turnrate and its BOFF & Console layout.

-> -> -> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- <- <-
T6 Guardian Class design / A 25th century Ambassador refit
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 168
# 23
02-05-2013, 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
I offer you and any other prospective buyers the opportunity to meet me somewhere in game and see my T5 Fleet Ship, and the fact I am not in a T5 Fleet.

As I already stated, I too was suspicious beforehand. Two things swayed my mind:

1) I was allowed to see the Fleet Status before paying anything, and check that there were enough provisions.

2) During this period I took a look at the leaderboard and saw that the seller had a very high contribution to that fleet, numbering several millions of fleet credits. This told me that they were not some scammer but a person who is devoted to their fleet, and probably gave a good amount of time and resources into getting it to T5.
a couple flaws with your logic.

A.) You state that you want to show them your tier 5 fleet vessel while not being in a tier 5 fleet. Problem is that you could have joined a Tier 5 Fleet of one of your friends, gotten the ship for an unknown sum of money (heck it could have been for free) and then left the fleet of your own accord.

Alternatively, you could have previously been a member in good standing of a fleet with a tier 5 shipyard (one of the first to get them), gotten your tier 5 ship, subsequently left the fleet for an undisclosed reason (any reason will do), and ended up in a random fleet that has not got a tier 5 shipyard.

B.) Just because you weren't scammed by whatever fleet you got your tier 5 fleet ship from, does not mean that someone else won't be scammed by someone else's fleet. Scams happen all the time.

C.) Technically funds given to pay for a fleet ship during such a transaction should not go to an individual member of that fleet, but rather to the fleet bank. As the resources to get the Fleet to Tier 5 belong to the entire fleet... not just one individual. Granted one individual may contribute more to the fleet than another individual. But ultimately it is because of the entire fleet that the fleet was able to get to tier 5, not because of one individual or another. Thus the money made by selling Tier 5 ships should be communal, not individualistic.
______________________________
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 24
02-05-2013, 04:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helixsunbringer View Post
a couple flaws with your logic.
I could deliver the same message in one sentence that took you four paragraphs to say:

You trust the fleet ship sellers at your own risk.

Now to respond:

In the case of players "yetanotherdesire" and "epsilonia", their fleet does indeed have a Tier 5 shipyard. I've seen it. I've only bought lockbox ships from them, but they have been very happy to sell them without trying to scam me. They are very concerned with maintaining their reputation as legitimate ship sellers; they want everyone who wants a Tier 5 ship to buy access to their shipyard and spread the word so they can get more customers.

They don't need to scam anyone because it costs them nothing to grant access to their shipyard. They also know that scamming is ultimately counterproductive; How would it benefit them to ruin their reputation and lose a valuable long term income source by screwing a couple of players out of 40 million each?

Now obviously some fleets may not have a Tier 5 shipyard and might hit upon the idea of scamming players for some easy money, but their reputation will soon precede them and nobody will do business with them after their first couple of hits.

And you don't have to trust testimonial evidence like mine about legitimate ship sellers. But what are you going to do about every satisfied customer who adds their own review of the service being offered? Testimonial evidence gains reliability when it comes from multiple sources. Would you think that all the satisfied players in this thread are alts of the ship sellers in question? Or are being paid to lie? The business of buying fleet ships from sellers is actually quite safe if you do the research on each seller and find positive or negative reviews of the service.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,319
# 25
02-05-2013, 04:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
I could deliver the same message in one sentence that took you four paragraphs to say:

You trust the fleet ship sellers at your own risk.

Now to respond:

In the case of players "yetanotherdesire" and "epsilonia", their fleet does indeed have a Tier 5 shipyard. I've seen it. I've only bought lockbox ships from them, but they have been very happy to sell them without trying to scam me. They are very concerned with maintaining their reputation as legitimate ship sellers; they want everyone who wants a Tier 5 ship to buy access to their shipyard and spread the word so they can get more customers.

They don't need to scam anyone because it costs them nothing to grant access to their shipyard. They also know that scamming is ultimately counterproductive; How would it benefit them to ruin their reputation and lose a valuable long term income source by screwing a couple of players out of 40 million each?

Now obviously some fleets may not have a Tier 5 shipyard and might hit upon the idea of scamming players for some easy money, but their reputation will soon precede them and nobody will do business with them after their first couple of hits.

And you don't have to trust testimonial evidence like mine about legitimate ship sellers. But what are you going to do about every satisfied customer who adds their own review of the service being offered? Testimonial evidence gains reliability when it comes from multiple sources. Would you think that all the satisfied players in this thread are alts of the ship sellers in question? Or are being paid to lie? The business of buying fleet ships from sellers is actually quite safe if you do the research on each seller and find positive or negative reviews of the service.
Their their reputation wouldn't soon precede them - naming names isn't allowed which is why frequent Fleet Account thieves continue to do what they do (and the victim fleet's not setting their security appropriate is another matter altogether).

STAR TREK BATTLES - HIGH DPS PLAYERS NEED NOT APPY
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 26
02-05-2013, 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01 View Post
Their their reputation wouldn't soon precede them - naming names isn't allowed which is why frequent Fleet Account thieves continue to do what they do (and the victim fleet's not setting their security appropriate is another matter altogether).
You proceed from the assumption that the STO forums are the only place to ask for reviews of ship sellers. Zone chat in ESD is pretty effective at weeding out the scammers.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,825
# 27
02-05-2013, 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helixsunbringer View Post
a couple flaws with your logic.

A.) You state that you want to show them your tier 5 fleet vessel while not being in a tier 5 fleet. Problem is that you could have joined a Tier 5 Fleet of one of your friends, gotten the ship for an unknown sum of money (heck it could have been for free) and then left the fleet of your own accord.

Alternatively, you could have previously been a member in good standing of a fleet with a tier 5 shipyard (one of the first to get them), gotten your tier 5 ship, subsequently left the fleet for an undisclosed reason (any reason will do), and ended up in a random fleet that has not got a tier 5 shipyard.
Well, on the other end of the spectrum, accept an invite to my current fleet and see that I have made large contributions to it. Ask whatever members you find about what date I joined, it would be a point way before T5 ships other than the Ody even existed.

Quote:
B.) Just because you weren't scammed by whatever fleet you got your tier 5 fleet ship from, does not mean that someone else won't be scammed by someone else's fleet. Scams happen all the time.
Okay, at the risk of getting in trouble for naming things, I purchased my ship from 1st Aquarius Division. I have no reason to be friends, in your sense of the word, with any of its members, and I have never contributed to it (check their leaderboard). Logic says that why the hell would they give me a T5 ship for free.

Quote:
C.) Technically funds given to pay for a fleet ship during such a transaction should not go to an individual member of that fleet, but rather to the fleet bank. As the resources to get the Fleet to Tier 5 belong to the entire fleet... not just one individual. Granted one individual may contribute more to the fleet than another individual. But ultimately it is because of the entire fleet that the fleet was able to get to tier 5, not because of one individual or another. Thus the money made by selling Tier 5 ships should be communal, not individualistic.
The reason I described the seller's large contribution was because that implied (to me) that the seller would be making full use of the fee to further the fleet projects, and not for personal gain. Since mutliple members of that fleet are advertising, it is clear this is an organized sale, and not some greedy member with promotion rights.

Anyway, I feel I am going too far with this defence, I am not going to blame people for being hesitant, but sometimes you have to find a little trust.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,319
# 28
02-05-2013, 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
You proceed from the assumption that the STO forums are the only place to ask for reviews of ship sellers. Zone chat in ESD is pretty effective at weeding out the scammers.
Not really - I distinctly recall a player actively boasting on Zone chat about how he was deliberately joining fleets for no other reason than to attempt to empty their banks, with varying levels of success.

Said player would periodically send out 'Looking for a Fleet' messages. He received numerous replies, suggesting that at least SOME zone-chat users are not too attentive and have 'selective reading'.

STAR TREK BATTLES - HIGH DPS PLAYERS NEED NOT APPY
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 145
# 29
02-05-2013, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01 View Post
If it hasn't happened already it WILL happen. Sooner or later there'll be a thread on here pertaining to how someone handed over the 'cash' and didn't receive their 'purchase'. Mark my words.
When there is, I'll feel sorry they didn't instead decide to go to one of our reputable fleet's members while making sure that the person is part of our fleet, like making sure you check the butcher at the deli to make sure the cold cuts are of Boar's Head.

July 12, 2012 - January 24, 2013
It's been a long road, getting from there to here~

Last edited by epsilonia; 02-05-2013 at 09:07 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,643
# 30
02-05-2013, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helixsunbringer View Post
I would rather spend my time aiding my own fleet in getting a tier 5 shipyard (we are currently about half-way to getting our Tier 4 Shipyard) and then get the ship through my own fleet, instead of convincing my fleet to let me temporarily depart from the fleet so that I can buy a ship from a third party fleet's shipyard.
Agreed... I don't need my Imperial-class Fleet Assault Cruiser right now, and I don't have the resources on hand to buy access to it. I'm content to wait until my fleet finishes grinding through its holdings to get that 4th tactical console and the 10% bump to hull and shields.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:31 PM.