Go Back   Star Trek Online > The Foundry for Star Trek Online > The Foundry for Star Trek Online - Discussion & Feedback
Login

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
Devs,

When I found out about the ability to farm drops in the foundry I was happy. It gave a means to get some credits. The last foundry update has made it harder, but not impossible to do. The reasn why players like myself do this can be summed up in several ways and solutions below:

1-Merchants.
When the merchants get into an MMO, their goal is to manipulate the ingame economy and cause massive inflation. Many merchants also offer their services for payment, and other merchants sit on the exchange and wait for someone to mis-post an item for an incirrect amount.

How can Merchants be dealt with?
Simple. Put a post cap on items such as reward packs, this makes it impossible for merchants to inflate the economy.

2-DOFF Abuse
When Children's Toys was added, there was a massive inflation caused by the Very Rare MK XII consoles. A year ago, you could get a MK12 Phaser Relay for about 2 Million. Today, due to inflation and (in part) merchants, they go for over 30 Million.

How can DOFF Abuse be dealt with?
This approach can be dealt with by updating crafting, which will be detailed in the next item.

3-Crafting, or lack thereof
Crafting in an MMO has 2 major rules that ALWAYS must be followed in order for it to work.

One: There needs to be a "Hot Item" such as a crafting ingredient required for High End crafting.

Two: Crafting is not supposed to cost any kind of currency. There is no MMO that I play that forces me to spend currency to craft.

How can the lack of Crafting be addressed?
Do what I said above, and upgrade crafting to allow us to craft MK12 Items.

4-Dilithium costs
Everything in this game costs dilithium to some extent. This is a mistake. You need to address this ASAP.

5-Credit costs, ESPECIALLY in the Rep system.
When I have to flush 800,000 Credits a day to get Rep XP, there is a serious problem.

How can 4 and 5 be addressed?
Cut the costs, damnit. 800K a day is unforgivable for something so simple as credits.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,456
# 2
01-31-2013, 09:03 PM
Agree and disagree with pieces of this. Firstly and most importantly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by burstdragon323 View Post
5-Credit costs, ESPECIALLY in the Rep system.
When I have to flush 800,000 Credits a day to get Rep XP, there is a serious problem.

How can 4 and 5 be addressed?
Cut the costs, damnit. 800K a day is unforgivable for something so simple as credits.
Reputation costs really weren't that high at all, and I disagree with this quite strongly. I made it to T5 in both Romulan and Omega reputation systems quickly and easily without much of an EC cost. Simply running the Tau Dewa Patrol Mission netted you enough EC to complete the reputation system costs.

I was pretty lazy and didn't do this most days, I'd guess I was about 1m out of pocket for the whole rep system once you count in how much I'd made whilst earning marks to continue.

Projects never got up to 800k a day, that number is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burstdragon323 View Post
3-Crafting, or lack thereof
Crafting in an MMO has 2 major rules that ALWAYS must be followed in order for it to work.

One: There needs to be a "Hot Item" such as a crafting ingredient required for High End crafting.
Section on Crafting is spot on, it needs an overhaul and it needs the dilithium costs scrapped from it. I can see why it doesn't make all that much sense of Cryptic to do it. What incentive would there be for people to use reputation weapons? Fleet weapons? Nobody would bother, they would just craft stuff.

While this is good for us, the players, I'm not sure how good it is for the business, and cryptic. Completely agree with the sentiment though - dilithium killed crafting and that's a real shame!

Quote:
Originally Posted by burstdragon323 View Post
How can Merchants be dealt with?
Simple. Put a post cap on items such as reward packs, this makes it impossible for merchants to inflate the economy.

2-DOFF Abuse
When Children's Toys was added, there was a massive inflation caused by the Very Rare MK XII consoles. A year ago, you could get a MK12 Phaser Relay for about 2 Million. Today, due to inflation and (in part) merchants, they go for over 30 Million.
As a DOFFer and Merchant I take offense to these sentiments and I think you've got them wrong. Cryptic manipulating the market and placing arbitrary caps on the costs of stuff is an incredibly bad idea. You should never want the game developers to interfere in the economy of a game which should always be driven by the players.

There's nothing wrong with the Merchants trying to make money by playing the market and trying to manipulate supply and demand - absolutely nothing at all. There are successful investments and failed investments, to take away this aspect of the game is unfair and reckless.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 592
# 3
01-31-2013, 09:16 PM
On the costs of the reputation system I have to agree, is that an overall cost of multiple characters? Are you buying your materials from strictly the exchange? I would hope you are using space vendors and the consumables on ESD or the like for materials, because as you no doubt know, its highway robbery on the exchange.

Crafting, this is a mythic update long in the works of some sort, I fear its somewhere in the realm of 'hair tech' these days, but it needs love. That is for sure because otherwise its a dead profession. But I also have to ask, why do you need purple MK XII? It is entirely possible to get to end game without it, and if you dont have time to play very often, then what does it matter if you have only Mk XI's and some of them are blue?

I unfortunately cannot say the dilithium economy is ever going to go away or see any drastic reductions, partly because its within the realm of reason to make 8k a day in it, and partly because for the majority of people(No hard evidence on this statement so it is possible I am wrong on it) they are F2P, and therefor the only income the company makes is when people spend real cash money to get dilithium, or something from the cstore.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,456
# 4
01-31-2013, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by castsbugc View Post
Crafting, this is a mythic update long in the works of some sort, I fear its somewhere in the realm of 'hair tech' these days, but it needs love. That is for sure because otherwise its a dead profession.

Unfortunately I can all but guarantee you that the crafting overhaul is going to come in the form of a reputation project. It makes sense, the architecture is already there and it saves them overhauling and writing a brand new game mechanic.

I highly doubt they will make it dilithium free, although I'll keep my fingers crossed until it's released - I just don't see it happening.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 592
# 5
01-31-2013, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topset View Post
Unfortunately I can all but guarantee you that the crafting overhaul is going to come in the form of a reputation project. It makes sense, the architecture is already there and it saves them overhauling and writing a brand new game mechanic.

I highly doubt they will make it dilithium free, although I'll keep my fingers crossed until it's released - I just don't see it happening.
I have a feeling you are right on this, as I seem to recall a recent interview saying something to this effect.

Perhaps we can get them to consider GPL as something... If we have to have grinding, at least make it canon :1
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7
# 6
01-31-2013, 09:42 PM
[quote=burstdragon323;7806521]Devs,

When I found out about the ability to farm drops in the foundry I was happy. It gave a means to get some credits. The last foundry update has made it harder, but not impossible to do. The reasn why players like myself do this can be summed up in several ways and solutions below:

1-Merchants.
When the merchants get into an MMO, their goal is to manipulate the ingame economy and cause massive inflation. Many merchants also offer their services for payment, and other merchants sit on the exchange and wait for someone to mis-post an item for an incirrect amount.

How can Merchants be dealt with?
Simple. Put a post cap on items such as reward packs, this makes it impossible for merchants to inflate the economy.

2-DOFF Abuse
When Children's Toys was added, there was a massive inflation caused by the Very Rare MK XII consoles. A year ago, you could get a MK12 Phaser Relay for about 2 Million. Today, due to inflation and (in part) merchants, they go for over 30 Million.

How can DOFF Abuse be dealt with?
This approach can be dealt with by updating crafting, which will be detailed in the next item.



i agree on these 100% nerf items keys bound ships, and any item rare and above bound.


why we farm answer becuase u put something on the exchange for 88mill and abused the exchange.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,618
# 7
01-31-2013, 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topset View Post
-SNIP-
As a DOFFer and Merchant I take offense to these sentiments and I think you've got them wrong. Cryptic manipulating the market and placing arbitrary caps on the costs of stuff is an incredibly bad idea. You should never want the game developers to interfere in the economy of a game which should always be driven by the players.

There's nothing wrong with the Merchants trying to make money by playing the market and trying to manipulate supply and demand - absolutely nothing at all. There are successful investments and failed investments, to take away this aspect of the game is unfair and reckless.

I believe the target was gold farmers. more money to be made if you need to buy more of it to get what you want. The goal is really currency manipulation, if you can sell your item for more creds then you will have more creds to sell and if it costs more creds for everything you sell more creds.


And if it wasn't it should have been altho I havn't seen many farmer spams, but then I also rarely have zone chat on it's a quality of life thing.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 347
# 8
02-01-2013, 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by castsbugc View Post
But I also have to ask, why do you need purple MK XII? It is entirely possible to get to end game without it, and if you dont have time to play very often, then what does it matter if you have only Mk XI's and some of them are blue?
PvP

In a five console escort the difference between Purple MK XI and Purple MK XII tac consoles is 9% total damage output.

Make no mistake, exchange prices are driven by PvP players. There are only two ways to get a Purple MK XII Console. Childrens Toys mission chain, and EXTREMELY lucky drop in STFs. (only possible in the end of the mission loot bag)

Maybe you don't care about PvP, but PvP players spend a LOT of money on this game. We NEED lockbox/z-store ships to be competitive. We NEED top grade consoles and weapons. If i take two identical ships differing only by the MK of the gear and put equally skilled Players controlling them, the MK XII will DESTROY the MK XI ship every time. It's not even close. 9% difference in damage output is HUGE.

I agree 100% that the answer lies in the crafting system, OR in making tactical and engineering consoles available through Reputation or Fleet progression. Science consoles have been addressed with the Embassy. My gut tells me that the hinted at Crafting and PvP rep systems coming in S8 will address this and then you won't see the need for farming missions to exist in the first place.

Personally my very favorite part of STO is the "Legit" Foundry Missions, but I find myself instead doing a lot of things I don't enjoy because they are profitable and my second favorite activity, PvP, demands that I have top grade equipment to enjoy it.

That said, I played Fed Battleship Farming (lvl 46+) today with the change to timid enemies, and I had a blast. This is the first "mission" I have done that comes anywhere close to the challenge level of PvP. So personally, I am not really affected negatively by this change, but I know a lot of other newer PvP players that are going to have a much harder time becoming competitive without a way to easily farm those EC.

IMHO, there should NEVER be gear in a game on the FTP model that is inaccessible through actual gameplay. Silver players that can't spend the cash to buy the zen to raise the limit to EC they can hold cannot even think about buying a MK XII Very Rare console off the exchange.

When they make this level of Console able to be earned through actual gameplay or crafting, the need for these type of foundry exploit missions goes WAY WAY down.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,144
# 9
02-01-2013, 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by burstdragon323 View Post

2-DOFF Abuse
When Children's Toys was added, there was a massive inflation caused by the Very Rare MK XII consoles. A year ago, you could get a MK12 Phaser Relay for about 2 Million. Today, due to inflation and (in part) merchants, they go for over 30 Million.
Some good points and some glaring inaccuracies.

The above is most clearly wrong. I bought a Mk XII Phaser relay more than 12 months ago, I think it was around 18 months but certainly more than a year, it cost me 25 million and I remember clearly the next one available was 40 million so I only bought the one which I still use.

Also the EC cost of the Rep system is not a big deal, I never even checked to see what it was costing the amounts are so piddling. Certainly you could make more than it cost collecting the junk from the Tau Dewa each day.

On crafting I agree with what you say.

FLTCDR SRS FLEETS - S.R.S. - S.R.S. ACADEMY - SRS GUARDIANS - SRS KDF
Join Us www.srs-fleet.net/html/join_srs.html
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,703
# 10
02-01-2013, 06:18 AM
1: if you're buying commodities.... set the filters to display by cost per unit. You can usually get commods on exchange for 80% of what NPC vendors charge.

2: I'm with Johnson. Mk12 consoles are down. They still cost millions but the supply is UP from when the only way to get them was random drops in Elite STFs....

3: I played Diablo 2 enough to be able to easily compare the two. D2 crafting didn't cost gold(ec). But it required things that were a lot more valuable. Perfect gems were about as valuable as rare particle traces. High end Runes? Hehe.... Those cost a fortune, IF you could find them. So... high end crafting in D2 actually cost MORE.

4: except for the things that give you dil..... :p

5: seriously? what tier are you? 4?
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:28 PM.