Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 90
# 11
02-02-2013, 05:38 AM
Does anyone have that feeling that the world its crumbling around us? I know I do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 54
# 12
02-02-2013, 05:49 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 02-02-2013 at 07:18 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 558
# 13
02-02-2013, 06:04 AM
Just because the game is an overall success doesn't mean that a good portion of the people playing it or making comments on Foundry missions/forums aren't a$$es. I agree with the OP of this thread. Inevitably the lack of any real formal consequences and the anonymity of being behind a computer screen leads people to be cruel and bullish and just plain stupid.

In regards to comments, I really don't see why it can not be designed so that comments have to be approved by the author of the foundry mission prior to publication?! Most websites have this option. (i.e. YouTube, Blogger, etc...) Especially as pointed out earlier, there are children actually authoring these missions and inevitably will have their parents supervising said comments as well.

This is as much a family game as it is an opportunity to attract new people to Star Trek. People who want to behave a certain way can just as well go play Eve.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 14
02-02-2013, 06:13 AM
To be clear, the 1 star ratings, whatever ... They are just a part.
The real issue is the negative / caustic/ hateful culture that has formed.
1 star me all you want. Not really bothered by that.
The current rating/tip system is desperately in need of an overhaul anyway.

Cryptic have, by inaction, allowed these idiots to ruin the forums and the now the main page articles.
They refuse to just come out and state what the Foundry is intended for and What will be considered exploits, allowing these pea brains to believe that obvious exploits are intended game features.
They allow the belief that ANY small subset of players could influence the company and Dev team to the sort of patch that happened last week to fix the exploit.

We demonized the exploits. Until personal attacks started from the cheater community our rage was directed at the missions. Not the people making them. These folks have started a campaign of personal attacks against a number of authors.

To be clear.
I can feel a change coming.
I can tell that Brandon, and others actually care about the Foundry, and would like to find some pleasant way to get this resolved. I truly wish them the best of luck.

Last edited by hippiejon; 02-02-2013 at 06:52 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 926
# 15
02-02-2013, 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiejon View Post
Cryptic have, by inaction, allowed these idiots to ruin the forums and the now the main page articles.
They refuse to just come out and state what the Foundry is intended for and What will be considered exploits, allowing these pea brains to believe that obvious exploits are intended game features.
They allow the belief that ANY small subset of players could influence the company and Dev team to the sort of patch that happened last week to fix the exploit.
I wonder, what sort of profit margin Cryptic/PWE has with this game? If it's thin enough, it may very well be that ANY small subset of players could influence the company, as alienating ANY small subset of players would quickly take PWE from making money to bleeding it.

Mind you, this sort of problem is hardly unique to STO - it goes a long way toward explaining the cult of the "lowest common denominator" in any number of endeavors. In STO's case, the lowest common denominator is the grinders.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,053
# 16
02-02-2013, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
I think the real issue is the incentive structure for the Foundry is all wrong. The Foundry is about making stories. That is what Cryptic/DStahl claimed when it was released, and the effort put into making it reflects that fact.

The problem is the incentives currently encourage people to come to the Foundry to grind out resources (dilithium, fleet marks, etc). The Foundry should never offer a faster way of gathering resources than some other part of the game, no matter how optimized a mission is for doing so.

The rewards for playing Foundry missions should always be noticeably inferior to some other method of gaining resources, perhaps by about 20%. The rewards should provide a decent return for those who already enjoy playing stories, but they should not motivate people who want to maximize rewards to come in and distort what the Foundry is about.

The people who want to grind may be correct that a majority of the player base may not care about stories, but the problem is that those type of people should not be coming to the Foundry. The Foundry is for the minority who want stories, just like other parts of the game cater to different types of players.

In the end, stories require authors, and it's going to discourage a lot of people from bothering with the Foundry if their efforts are hidden beneath simple "Kill 25X" missions. This is going to be true for both STO and NW, so if some method of encouraging stories and discouraging grinders cannot be found, the resources going into developing the Foundry might as well just go elsewhere.
I agree with this post, but I'd go even further.

I'd like to return to a time when there was a complete disconnect between the Foundry and what this game has become. This rewards system is privileging a MMO style of game play where players seek out the most X for the least amount of Y.

The Foundry should be about stories for the sake of stories, not for the sake of filling a bucket.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 17
02-02-2013, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxfederatica View Post
I wonder, what sort of profit margin Cryptic/PWE has with this game? If it's thin enough, it may very well be that ANY small subset of players could influence the company, as alienating ANY small subset of players would quickly take PWE from making money to bleeding it.

Mind you, this sort of problem is hardly unique to STO - it goes a long way toward explaining the cult of the "lowest common denominator" in any number of endeavors. In STO's case, the lowest common denominator is the grinders.
Actually Cryptic is making money by saving money. There is a direct correlation between story foundry missions and Cryptic development time. As story foundry missions increase, the amount of time Cryptic must spend on story development decreases proportionately. Multi-episode foundry jaunts have replaced Featured Episodes. While authors continue to churn out missions, Cryptic is lowering overhead by paying their employees to work on another aspect of the game than new Featured Episodes or mission arcs.
All cloaks should be canon.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 411
# 18
02-02-2013, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
<snip>

The problem is the incentives currently encourage people to come to the Foundry to grind out resources (dilithium, fleet marks, etc). The Foundry should never offer a faster way of gathering resources than some other part of the game, no matter how optimized a mission is for doing so.

<snip>
This right here ^.

I'd love to see the rewards stay for the Foundry (maybe once a day?) so that folks who like story content can get a reward for their time spent, but making official content more attractive for grinding (STFs, PvP matches, etc) would certainly take care of the Foundry grinder-mission issue.
My consolidated list of game improvements for STO: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=990371

Last edited by captainhunter1; 02-02-2013 at 10:12 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26
# 19
02-02-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3xr34p3r View Post
Don't let these drive by 1 stars put you off, you guys make awsum missions and as long as you are making them when you have the time there will be people playing and enjoying them, having that much attention is showing that your to be reckoned with as an author and we as a community need to work together to enjoy whats available to us in this and other games and ignore those that make fools of themselves.
You have an excellent attitude.

Such a departure from the complaining foundry authors.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,510
# 20
02-02-2013, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by recks43 View Post
You have an excellent attitude.

Such a departure from the complaining foundry authors.
Something else that needs to change is the name calling from both sides. "Whiny authors" and "entitled grinders" both need to understand that both sides have legitimate concerns. Name calling will just turn into more name calling which will not help any legitimate discussion.

Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
The Defenders - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - [WIP] Commander Rihan
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