Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 11
02-03-2013, 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomictiki View Post
I think this is the most brilliant, succinct distillation of why the foundry elites are doing what they are doing: revenge (against a fabricated "enemy").
Hardly a fabrication as you are clearly an authentic enemy. I note you offer no rebuttal of the charges here. Wise, as they are true and you know it. Well, at least you spell-checked this time...

But perhaps I'm wrong. You are laying claim to moral superiority so let's see it in action. Explain to me why you are here in the Foundry forums, making statements like you have, if not to deliberately sow discord and escalate this conflict. Let's hear it.

Last edited by ajstoner; 02-03-2013 at 04:57 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 12
02-03-2013, 04:18 AM
For those of you just joining us, let me sum up the thread so far;

Clint Eastwood and his chair.
_________________
Nebula coffee is the best coffee
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,508
# 13
02-03-2013, 04:23 AM
I invite you all to stop fighting and try to find ways to work together to solve an issue that is affecting everyone.

The ideas of Us vs Them, Me vs You, etc. are ancient and totally non-productive.

Continue if you must , but be aware that there is an effort to end this stupid bickering and name calling and actually work toward a solution together.

Continue to "attack" (if you must). I continue to encourage those that actually want to work toward a solution to simply leave you be. (AJ , just let them be. Not worth it)
Enjoy your righteous rage.

Many of us will be elsewhere , trying to figure out how to fix things.

If you can leave the name calling and rage behind you, please join us.

This thread is being reported for baiting and trolling.

Have a nice Day
- John
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 14
02-03-2013, 04:59 AM
He started it! lol

You are right of course...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 124
# 15
02-03-2013, 06:14 AM
I don't have any problem with the grinders as missions, I do have a problem with the way Cryptic is just lumping everything into one giant category on listings. They really need to implement a tagging system so that the grinders can be tagged as grinders and the story missions can be tagged as story, etc. That way it will be easy to sort by specific tags and find what you are looking for. Maybe even have several tabs on the Foundry missions window for Grinders, Story, RP, Combat, etc.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,426
# 16
02-03-2013, 06:17 AM
I believe that the ONLY solution is one that Cryptic decide upon.

What that will be, I cannot say.

Do Grinders deserve a place in the Foundry? In terms of the existing structure of game play, I would say most definitely. Look at SB 24, Gorn Mine, Azure Nebula, Fleet Missions. All grinders.

This is what I believe needs to occur.

Option A:

FM & Dilithium based missions need to be separated from Foundry story line missions in terms of their reward tables.

Where the first type of mission, the "Grinder" rewards only FM, Dilithium & previous loot tables, the second "Story line" mission would reward only the previous loot tables & ultra rare high-end weapons, equipment etc on completion.

This allows all players an avenue to farm for their SB & ec's, but also sets up a healthy economy for the story authors to attract players to their missions as well. If you need FM, you head off to your favorite grinder. If you are looking for that chance to get a MK XII phaser relay, you head off to play your favorite story. Everyone is happy.

Option B:

Embassy and SB missions projects.

Most of the special projects associated with this features have been purely of an aesthetic nature.

What about, as with on New Romulus, where one unlocks missions, Cryptic introduced a few special projects that are SB-based Fleet Grinders that rewards the same as the Foundry Daily, namely 50 FM and 960 dilithium and which are repeatable as normal.

Where the STO community need to agree on, is what constitutes a valid "Grinder". Grinders need to be of the same game experience and intent as the aforementioned missions. "Console click" missions were notorious in the previous system, and we can all agree that it was abused. I would like a system that is fair. As a Foundry author, I would like to share the Foundry with fellows that respect what we stand to lose. The Foundry is something unique, something endangered. I wonder what we will be do with it for those that follow? The loot changes were not as a result of some vocal authors. The loot drop changes were a result of a irresponsible approach to what the Foundry constitutes. To push that under the carpet, and proceed to blame the next guy, is as equally irresponsible.

Until such a system is introduced, the Foundry experience is going to be one filled with bitterness and resentment for all.

I love what the Foundry has given me. The opportunity to express myself. I call that my passion.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 02-03-2013 at 06:56 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 643
# 17
02-03-2013, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post

Option A:

...

Option B:

..

A
There is already a two teir reward system in place. Spotlight missions get double or whatever extra reward beyond normal. The vetting is slow, but necessary. I don't think this this is an issue, it takes man hours to do this so you can see that Cryptic is already materially investment in your preferred type of mission. It is a big deal that they bother to do this and should not be discounted out of hend.

B
That is perhaps more evil than the rep system's "grind to unlock the ability to grind for an item." And very likely the missions unlocked would not be very efficient and like the Q "shell game" more annoying than fun.
Leave nerfing to the professionals.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 18
02-03-2013, 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomictiki View Post
A
There is already a two teir reward system in place. Spotlight missions get double or whatever extra reward beyond normal. The vetting is slow, but necessary. I don't think this this is an issue, it takes man hours to do this so you can see that Cryptic is already materially investment in your preferred type of mission. It is a big deal that they bother to do this and should not be discounted out of hend.

B
That is perhaps more evil than the rep system's "grind to unlock the ability to grind for an item." And very likely the missions unlocked would not be very efficient and like the Q "shell game" more annoying than fun.


What he's doing with missions Cryptic Spotlight is please the players they want, this is not a solution, is a patch to please his "friends" and create an elite cast missions.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 54
# 19
02-03-2013, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
I'll try to keep this short, since I don't plan on participating in the resulting discussion. I also realize my comments here have probably already been made ad-nauseum, but I feel the need to post them anyway.
So ... you want to make comments, but don't want to hear what anyone thinks about them. Why, then, make them in the first place?
Quote:
That means I'll NEVER play the foundry story missions. ... Yes, "CAN'T", because long story missions with someone's Mary Sue characters are undesirable.
How do you know their "personal fantasies" with "Mary Sue characters" is you haven't actually played them?
Quote:
Literally the only reason I played foundry missions was to get dilithium, a commodity that is increasingly difficult to obtain, despite dev claims to the contrary. Now I can't do that.
Well, I know that completing an elite STF will net you at least more than 500 dilithium then completing a Foundry mission (at least 50 Omega Marks (and thus one "Ongoing War Efforts") in addition to the regular 960 dil reward), so Foundry missions are no longer the most efficient way to get said crystal.
Quote:
I am, however, now actively discouraging everyone who asks or comments from playing foundry missions. In my valued opinion (amongst my circle of friends), there's nothing to be gained by doing so.
So you are crusading against story missions, despite saying you aren't. (At least since I, who infamously brought up (facetiously) the idea of going and 1-starring the grinder missions in kirkfat's "Grinders: The Future of the Foundry" thread, am supposedly a "crusader" against grinder missions.)
Quote:
What could you have possibly gained by DRIVING PLAYERS AWAY from the foundry?
Less grinder missions cluttering up the "Top Rated" and "Most Popular" lists, making room for missions with actual substance?
Anyway, I'm not against grinding per se - I (and presumable the other pro-story people) oppose grinders when they abuse the Foundry.

The Nagus Dailies, in my opinion, were excellent examples of "grinders" done right. Yes, they were short, but they were also fun to play, and on top of that, they were legitimate missions - they each had a plot (albeit simplistic ones - protect that ship from enemies, raid that secret base, go through boarding party training, etc.) and required you to accomplish a task more difficult that "click on this console here."

Today's "grinders," on the other hand, seem to be the successor to the "clickies" of old. Back then, you could just click on three consoles at ESD or on Qo'nos and -BAM!- 1440 dilithium. Cryptic then instituted the 15-minute rule to get rid of such abuses. However, I think they threw the baby out with the bathwater, as such a rule also disqualified the Nagus Dailies from the wrapper as well.

To be honest, I haven't played "Battleship Rumble Royale" or any of the other "grinder" missions (well, I think ajstoner (or another story author) has one I've played, but it did have some story and also fit into his story missions). From what I've heard, though, it seems they're just missions that a)have stuff going on for 15 minutes just to qualify and/or b)"epic" battles between massive fleets just so the player can get l00t. That, in my opinion, would count as an abuse of the Foundry.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 49
# 20
02-03-2013, 08:09 AM
I do grinder missions as its the only real way to get enough fleet marks for small fleets, I still do grinders after this nerf (Yes there are still some left) and will continue to do them as look as they are around in any form.

Increase fleet mark rewards from other areas and I may move until then grinders it is.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:12 PM.