Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 444
# 21
02-03-2013, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoagonistes View Post
Less grinder missions cluttering up the "Top Rated" and "Most Popular" lists, making room for missions with actual substance?
While that is purely subjective... for instance I have no desire to ever play fanfic (yet I have enough search know-how and common sense to just overlook them without being offendid)...

What would you find an acceptable level of "de-cluttering"? The top 10 spots? The top 20? 50? Removal of all missions you don't like?
Leave nerfing to the professionals.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,045
# 22
02-03-2013, 08:28 AM
We need a better Foundry UI. One with a filter, so people can search separate lists for "grind" and "story" missions, depending on what they want.

This war (and yes, it basically is a war) has taken a toll on both sides. Isn't it time we just ended it?
Say NO to mandatory Arc!
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 444
# 23
02-03-2013, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
We need a better Foundry UI. One with a filter, so people can search separate lists for "grind" and "story" missions, depending on what they want.
I am absolutely 2000% for a better UI. Even better if it had mod support.
Leave nerfing to the professionals.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 24
02-03-2013, 08:53 AM
You can still shoot
And get all your loot
They just shoot right back
Cuz the exploit's gone kaput
_________________
Nebula coffee is the best coffee
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 444
# 25
02-03-2013, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twg042370 View Post
You can still shoot
And get all your loot
They just shoot right back
Cuz the exploit's gone kaput
not helpful at all
Leave nerfing to the professionals.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 26
02-03-2013, 09:58 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 02-03-2013 at 11:33 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 596
# 27
02-03-2013, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoagonistes View Post
So ... you want to make comments, but don't want to hear what anyone thinks about them. Why, then, make them in the first place?
OK, I'll bite. I made comments because I felt they needed to be heard (as I said in my first post). I wanted to start a discussion, and hopefully get the spiteful story authors to understand that they aren't helping themselves or their cause at all by demanding nerfs. Players aren't going to suddenly change their minds about story missions and start playing them just because the grinders are gone. As always, they'll go find the easiest method of earning their loot/dilithium. Story missions will never be one of them.

Also, I never said I wouldn't read the thread, just that I "don't plan on participating". You managed to change those plans, by the way, hence my reply.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoagonistes View Post
How do you know their "personal fantasies" with "Mary Sue characters" is you haven't actually played them?
It's simple: CBS hasn't approved your story. I like my Star Trek to come from a single source. That means I only like what CBS signs off on (with the one exception of TAS - that can go burn in the fires of Hades). Your stories could be some of the best examples of writing in recent Star Trek history, but it doesn't change the fact that CBS didn't formally approve it, unlike every mission the devs implement. For that reason, I am not interested.

I also deliberately dropped the "Mary Sue" reference because Star Trek fan-fiction (which foundry missions are, despite any claims to the contrary) is plagued by such characters and tropes. The only way to find out whether or not a story is one of them is, as you said, to play them. I'm not going to take the time to try and sort though and filter missions when I don't want to deal with "Mary Sue" missions to begin with. It's a conscious choice on my part, but one that I know I am not even close to alone in.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoagonistes View Post
Well, I know that completing an elite STF will net you at least more than 500 dilithium then completing a Foundry mission (at least 50 Omega Marks (and thus one "Ongoing War Efforts") in addition to the regular 960 dil reward), so Foundry missions are no longer the most efficient way to get said crystal.
My highly optimized escort could complete a particular mission in approximately 5 minutes, netting me 960 dilithium and 50 fleet marks (60 after you factor in the bonus consumable). No other mission in the game has that kind of time-spent/reward-earned ratio. Yes, most players have to spend more time in the foundry, or the mission in question wouldn't have reached the "20 minute average play time" threshold. Nonetheless, it worked for me, and I got through it quite quickly. I would run STFs in between foundry grind runs, which was a VERY efficient way for me to earn everything I needed in game.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoagonistes View Post
The Nagus Dailies, in my opinion, were excellent examples of "grinders" done right. Yes, they were short, but they were also fun to play, and on top of that, they were legitimate missions - they each had a plot (albeit simplistic ones - protect that ship from enemies, raid that secret base, go through boarding party training, etc.) and required you to accomplish a task more difficult that "click on this console here."
Never played them. I freely admit that I used "clicky" grinders instead of "story" grinders. Again, effort/reward ratios, and a complete lack of interest in other players' story ideas.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoagonistes View Post
Today's "grinders," on the other hand, seem to be the successor to the "clickies" of old. Back then, you could just click on three consoles at ESD or on Qo'nos and -BAM!- 1440 dilithium. Cryptic then instituted the 15-minute rule to get rid of such abuses. However, I think they threw the baby out with the bathwater, as such a rule also disqualified the Nagus Dailies from the wrapper as well.
Yes, they were the successor. They offered the least amount of effort to get the rewards. What you fail to realize is players will CONTINUE to find those scenarios, despite your best efforts to nerf them. This means players will CONTINUE to avoid the story missions because they take longer and/or are full of unwanted content. By nerfing grinders, you're just moving players away from the foundry towards other content instead. It doesn't make players start playing the story missions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoagonistes View Post
To be honest, I haven't played "Battleship Rumble Royale" or any of the other "grinder" missions (well, I think ajstoner (or another story author) has one I've played, but it did have some story and also fit into his story missions). From what I've heard, though, it seems they're just missions that a)have stuff going on for 15 minutes just to qualify and/or b)"epic" battles between massive fleets just so the player can get l00t. That, in my opinion, would count as an abuse of the Foundry.
Missions with the "timid" creatures might have counted as abuse, but if the ships or creatures are shooting back, why do you care? More importantly, what possible justification do you have to call it abuse if the player really does have to do something to earn their loot/dilithium? Try playing the Royale Rumble sometime - it's a lot harder than you think, especially if you run it with a group.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 520
# 28
02-03-2013, 11:25 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 02-03-2013 at 11:27 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 41
# 29
02-03-2013, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomictiki View Post
not helpful at all
He means that the grinders are still in the list; they actually have a challenge rating now. Battleship Royal Rumble, for instance, has always been there and drops just as good loot; make it a test missions for DPS fits and you could rake it in just as easily as easy money used to. (Sure you might go boom a couple of times, but even warehouse workers drop a crate on their foot every blue moon.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophere
How much is enough to stop this incessent whinning?

At this rate there is going to be a severe cheese shortage.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 444
# 30
02-03-2013, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zedomega View Post
He means that the grinders are still in the list; they actually have a challenge rating now. Battleship Royal Rumble, for instance, has always been there and drops just as good loot; make it a test missions for DPS fits and you could rake it in just as easily as easy money used to. (Sure you might go boom a couple of times, but even warehouse workers drop a crate on their foot every blue moon.)
It was the -nanny nanny boo boo- method of delivery.
Leave nerfing to the professionals.
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