Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 21
02-04-2013, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
As was stated already, projectile officers don't work with the omega launcher because they made this already glitchy weapon become even more glitchy.
And if they didn't want a rapid-firing projectile weapon to proc PWO doffs, they would have de-synched the ferengi missile launcher at the same time.

Which they didn't.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,914
# 22
02-04-2013, 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
And if they didn't want a rapid-firing projectile weapon to proc PWO doffs, they would have de-synched the ferengi missile launcher at the same time.

Which they didn't.
..yet.

False argument b.t.w since the ferengi missile is lobbi store and one of their money pits.
If anything they tend to keep things they make money on OP/exploitable.

Either way time will tell. When i have time to do a search I'll post that exact quote.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 255
# 23
02-04-2013, 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by questerius View Post
..yet.

False argument b.t.w since the ferengi missile is lobbi store and one of their money pits.
If anything they tend to keep things they make money on OP/exploitable.

Either way time will tell. When i have time to do a search I'll post that exact quote.
Not really. The missle is part of a 3 piece set.

If they were going to nerf romulan torp because you think it's an exploit, they would have done it when they did it for Omega, which as I understand was a fix really. Still, they took the time to toy with that but didn't bother with romulan. It's been a pretty significant weapon for players in pve and they have yet to touch it and it's been how long since people started calling it foul?(because people hate progression in STO, and don't feel like defending against the romulan torp in pvp)

I can actually believe your quote exists, but it doesn't explain why the supposed "exploit" has yet to be fixed. And when/if it is fixed, the romulan torp effectively becomes worthless as three slow firing, slow flying plasma torpedoes are good for nothing more than target practice for your opponent. It'll just be the best plasma torp you can get which is saying exactly nada. Perhaps that is why they have not fixed this "exploit" and instead are working on an idea to make it still worthwhile to use. It's certainly not a problem for PvP or more people would be up in arms over it, and it would have been nerfed/fixed weeks ago. So the only reason to touch it is because we take out PvE faster than normal. Maybe that's a good enough reason, maybe not.

If it is a good enough reason then I must ask, exactly why are we bothering playing if our characters are never going to grow and become stronger? This is a core element of MMORPGs. At some point you have to stop continuously adjusting old content, worrying about players steamrolling it, and accepting the fact that we're supposed to do that, and as a MMO developer it is your responsibility to continuously update the game with bigger and better challenges for characters that are stronger. The novelty of new ships and seasons only go so far. At some point you need to focus on end game content. Especially when the game is 3 years old now.

And I don't say that as a defense to keeping the romulan torp where it's at so much as I say it to everyone that plays the game that are so resistant to progression because it messes up their status quo PvP. This is why PvP must be separated from PvE somehow or we're never going to get real progression in this game when everything we get our hands on has to be these minor upgrades that's practically worthless in the PvE field. Even almighty starbase gear upgrades have to be kept on the low end of improvement just so precious PvP stays balanced. I for one am tired of it, and I'm tired of no real end game to speak of as a result. I'm not saying get rid of PvP. I'm saying it's time to design it in such a way that when entering PvP combat certain perks you have for PvE are now non existent or adjusted to be weaker for the duration of the PvP matchup in order to keep it balanced. It's not a new idea, and it works well when used in many MMORPGs that chose to curse themselves with using both pve and pvp.




Rant aside, as I said before at least the MKXI blue reman gear gives a mere 1 second boost to flight speed when used with omega. I don't know the improvement of purple MKXII yet. I would certainly hope it's better but by how much? Realistically? 2 seconds tops? Probably 1.5 seconds. What would it do for regular plasma torps? I'm not sure, but I doubt it's going to warrant using reman over every other piece in the game that outshines the perk of faster torps. The defense boost is alright I guess but not anything to worry about unless shot at you at close range. I'll test plasma torps right now with reman, but I'm not going to report back unless the results warrant doing so.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 24
02-05-2013, 02:02 AM
It's not an exploit as there is no unfair advantage to be gained. I did a ton of testing with DPS graphs and no matter how awesome endless streams of plasma projectiles look - the actual damage isn't any higher than what you'd get with a two quantum torp build, the quantums even come out ahead by ~300 DPS.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 25
02-05-2013, 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcademaster View Post
It's not an exploit as there is no unfair advantage to be gained. I did a ton of testing with DPS graphs and no matter how awesome endless streams of plasma projectiles look - the actual damage isn't any higher than what you'd get with a two quantum torp build, the quantums even come out ahead by ~300 DPS.
In my own testing, hyper-plasma plus ferengi comes out slightly ahead of a photon torpedo boat due to the plasma burn. The kinetic damage alone is kind of pathetic for a torpedo boat but the burn stacks up fast. But this is compensated by the fact that the hyper-plasma torpedoes have a crazy long time to target and low burst damage, which means they are completely pointless for exploiting open shields like a quantum torpedo is. They can also be shot down in flight or wiped out by nearby splash events, which happens a fair bit. So you're trading clumsiness for DPS.

I maintain that the only reason people are complaining about the hyper plasma launcher is because it is so "noisy" and draws a lot of attention to the actions of a torpedo boat. Torp boats have always had rapid-fire launches and a bunch of torpedoes in the air at once, just they've never been quite so numerous or visible before.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 322
# 26
02-05-2013, 04:30 AM
Normaly I run a quant boat with 3 purp torpy doffs. Lately with pretty much the same setup Ive been runnning with the rommy torp, and no rommy torp is not an OP projectile, while the paintball string LOOKS impressive its burst damage is more or less non-existent. I wouldnt be surprised if transphasic out parsed them for burst damage.

And while the plasma burn stacks are quite nice for alot of the stationary PVE stf stuff, its nothing one cant accomplish with aminimal quant setup(dont use photons so no idea there).
Also the ability for them to retarget is really quite convenient. And they do look cool

Tack on the fact that the projectiles are very slow, very visible, easly aoed down, easily avoided, the burn being easily HEd away if you fall asleep and get hit with it, and have a timer before they disapear. Im not really seeing the OPness


And as far as whoever said the LOBI fereghi missles+ torp dofs was powerful, LOL?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 27
02-05-2013, 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by questerius View Post
..yet.

False argument b.t.w since the ferengi missile is lobbi store and one of their money pits.
If anything they tend to keep things they make money on OP/exploitable.

Either way time will tell. When i have time to do a search I'll post that exact quote.
Following that logic, Tarantulas shouldn't have had their scorpion bug fixed. Except it happened. And tachyon mines will never get nerfed despite being hideously overtuned. Except that's going to happen too.


Quote:
And as far as whoever said the LOBI fereghi missles+ torp dofs was powerful, LOL?
When used as filler in creative projectile builds to bring slow firing projectile CDs down to insanely short levels, they absolutely are.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 322
# 28
02-05-2013, 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post

When used as filler in creative projectile builds to bring slow firing projectile CDs down to insanely short levels, they absolutely are.
ah so in escence give up and xtra fore weapon to speed up rload on a 2nd(or3rd) projectile. Im assuming were talking trics here since nothing else with a decent torp build would be labeled as slow fireing. Havnt used them that way i keep em on my tuffli for the commendation buff. For anything other than trics i really see no benifit as I can stream a constant string of quants without it. For trics whats the reload time were talking here? Insanely is a rather vague descriptor on skys falling/everythings fine forum boards.

Last edited by daskippa; 02-05-2013 at 05:26 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 29
02-05-2013, 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskippa View Post
ah so in escence give up and xtra fore weapon to speed up rload on a 2nd(or3rd) projectile. Im assuming were talking trics here since nothing else with a decent torp build would be labeled as slow fireing. Havnt used them that way i keep em on my tuffli for the commendation buff. For anything other than trics i really see no benifit as I can stream a constant string of quants without it. For trics whats the reload time were talking here? Insanely is a rather vague descriptor on skys falling/everythings fine forum boards.
I've seen it used to hasten a single tric (either a mine or torp), the breen cluster torp, even as backup on hyper-torps or quantums/plasma/transphasics to maintain a constantly high fire rate. With three purple PWOs you're talking up to a 9 second per missile shot CD reduction. That equates to 4.5/7.5/10.5 seconds coming off your long-cooldown weapons per missile firing cycle (including the firing time for the missile itself obviously, and assuming at least one proc). It's not a 100% thing, but the rapid fire nature of the launcher makes up for any zero-proc shots very quickly.

Photons are the only torps that can by themselves (when paired) sustain a constant projectile rain (by nature of their base cooldown, the torpedo GCD and the CD reduction of purple PWO doffs being large enough that you only need one proc per cycle). Every other type relies on chain-proccing PWO doffs, which means that when that chain breaks, the dps loss is both larger, and longer.

Last edited by stirling191; 02-05-2013 at 05:39 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,318
# 30
02-05-2013, 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcademaster View Post
It's not an exploit as there is no unfair advantage to be gained. I did a ton of testing with DPS graphs and no matter how awesome endless streams of plasma projectiles look - the actual damage isn't any higher than what you'd get with a two quantum torp build, the quantums even come out ahead by ~300 DPS.
I'm currently resting a Plasma build as well, using 2-3 DHCs and 1-2 part of the set. I even tried using both the Omega and the Hyper-Plasma (post patch), and came to the same conclusion.

The Omega launcher does worse damage than my DHCs (either as a pair or a trio) and is essentially good mainly for being an alternate torpedo to fill in the space for your primary launcher.

With 3 Very Rare Projectile Weapon Officers I can get an impressive looking string of plasma balls out of the Hyper-Plasma, but my parser shows it to also do worse than my DHCs. Part of this problem is that they're slow and fragile - against a group my CSV will finish melting most of the group before the plasma balls even get there. A lot of times I end up with at least a half dozen balls floating in the air. If they don't reacquire another target quickly enough, the warp core breach of the latest victims will pop them. Against bigger targets they do better because the targets survive long enough for the plasma balls to actually do something though.

I'm currently testing 3 DHC + Beam Array with BO3 vs 3 DHC + Hyper-Torp with HY3 to see how they fare. No projectile weapon officers this time, using 3 Conn officers so I can just use one copy of APB3 and have it up nearly all the time and 2 Shield Dist so I have a shield heal. (I'm in a JHEC, so it's TT1 x2, CSV1 x2, BO3 or THY3, APB3.)

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
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