Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
# 1 Can't break 8K DPS...
02-05-2013, 12:29 AM
Been scratching my head over this, can't seem to get my DPS past 8K, tried different builds and equipment layouts:

Here's an overview of my current build:

Captain Type:

Tactical Human, Accurate/Astrophysicist

Skill Tree:

-Maxed out everything in Tac skill tree except for threat/stealth,
-Maxed all the sci/eng skills that boost weapon power.

Ship:

Mobius Destroyer

Boff:

Commander Tac (Human): TT1, CSV1, APB1, APO3
Lt. Commander Sci (Human): HE1, TSS2, Repulsors 2
Lt. Tac (Jem'Hadar): BO1, Spread 2
Lt. Eng (Human): Eng Team 1, AuxSIF1
Ens. Eng (Human): EptA1

Gear

Set: Adapted MACO XII Set / OMEGA XII Set

Fore Weap: 1x Chron DBB, 2x Adv Fleet AP DHC [ACC], 1x Purple Chron XII Torp

Aft Weap: 3x Adv Fleet AP Turret [ACC]

Devices: RMC, Subspace Modulator

Eng Console: Tachyokinetic Converter, Purple Neutronium XII/Rommy console

Sci Console: Assimilated Module, 1x Purple Field Generator XII, 1x Blue Field Generator XII, Manheim

Tac Console: 2x Purple AP Mag XII, 1x Blue AP Mag XI, 1x Purple Chron Torp XII

I have keybinds that cycles all the attack patterns, CSV/TS.

I run chron torp because the temporal set grants 28% +dmg to chron torps. I tried swapping to Quantum XII, DPS drops instead.

I'm averaging about 5700 DPS (max ever is 7976 DPS) with the build above and I know how to fly an escort (and I know about DHC not being effective from 8km too, btw) and rarely gets destroyed.

Now, I'm suspecting that it could be my internet connection, cos its pretty laggy sometimes.

I'm using hilbert's ACT plugin v2012, tried v1050 but seems not much difference.

Care to comment?

Last edited by avarseir; 02-05-2013 at 12:33 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 262
# 2
02-05-2013, 01:40 AM
first off, let me state that individual dps is overrated. simply stated, these parsers take logs of your net or gross damage and divides it by the amount of time spend in map. it is highly susceptible to your team's awesomeness or incompetence and thus results in the deviation of your dps results.

with that said, your build lacks regardless. the human hull repair ability is nice, but for a pure increase in your dps, you want to invest in at least one rare, male romulan boff that increases your crit chance. if they fix the stacking issue, and that is a big if, you can use two of them.

in my honest opinion, i think that anything over 6/9 skill points is a waste. you can swing it on columns 1-3, but columns 4-5 are harder to justify. you would be well rounded to invest those skillpoints on other areas. iirc, skill ranks 1-3 offer +15 for each, 4-6 offer +10 and 7-9 offer +5. it's been my mantra to invest your skills evenly across the board for most functions. however, if you find you have left over skill points that need to be allocated, then by all means, go for the 7-9 ranks.

your weapons choice is okay. i never really was a fan of anti-proton weapons. they may be nice and flashy, but i think a tactical captain can really benefit from traditional weapons that avoid the [dmg] modifier. a mix of crit chance and crit severity can greatly boost your damage potential. people like the extra bang of the AP's +crit severity, but without the proper crit chance, the effect is moot.

i personally like the polaron/phased polaron weapon choice. for a klink, it offers a fantastic opportunity for skill and console synergy. however, even simple feds can enjoy it. many people overlook this weapon choice simply because they don't understand the true power of it's potential. when the proc hits, it drains from all power levels across the board. less weapons power = less damage inflicted. less shield power = less shield regen and shield damage resistence. less engine power = moves slower, decreases defensive rating. less aux power = less power for heals and other abilities. thus, when used in conjunction with a properly specced flow capacitor skill and consoles such as plasmonic leech and aceton assimilators, you can bring pve enemies to their knees and severely hinder enemies in pvp. but that's another issue within itself.

your skill choice is abysmal. it's all over the place. stick with 3x dhc's and 1 torp up front and 3x turrets in the back. why waste a spot for a dbb? i can guarantee you that you will get more bang for your buck if you did this one simple thing. then focus on the rest of your skills. with tac initiative, you can run a killer set of skills for a limited amount of time. that sucks. i like having skill synergy, where you have 2 sets of skills running without down time. i traditionally go with 2x csv, 2x torp spreads, 2x attack pattern betas because they all share the same cooldown schedule. 30 second individual, 15 global. with this, you can have 100% uptime without tactical initiative.

for my tac, i generally go with: tt1, beta 1, ts3 and csv3 with ts1, beta 1, csv2
for my sci, with the very nice conn doff that reduces AP cd times: 2x tt1, 2x ts2, 2x csv2 and apb3

you could technically use the sci build for the tac build, but then you'd be completely cutting out the use of tac initiative.

other such suggestions for skills are:
1. rotate 2 copies of emergency power to shields.
2. why repulsors? pop a grav well in there if you want to be a team player or something. repulsors are good only for no-win. everything else is just for being a flaming noob.

end notes: the torp choice is fine. so long as the cooldown is not horrendously long (>15 seconds) such that it would interfere with your skill rotation. again, dps is all about doing a lot of damage in a set period of time. i don't bother with the metrics and would rather play a support dps position, but that's me. i loves my sciscort with attack pattern beta 3. others do too. it makes them shine brighter.

if you really want to increase your "dps" - you'd be wise to find or create a group of trusted, skilled captains to blow through these missions with you. as i said in my opening, it takes the raw damage done and divides it by the amount of time you spend in that instance. in stfs, the damage is pretty much static, minus healing done and what not. you have to eliminate x amount of millions of hp to win. the quicker you get that done, the higher your dps reading will be. it should be noted that ise and hose are the best places to parse, since everyone is close together, shooting at the exact same things. so if you want to compare e-peens, i mean dps, that's where you should do it. personally, looking at how fast you complete that instance should be an indicator of how well you and your team did.

other such comparisons skew the results. kang defender gets screwed in cse. probe defender(s) get screwed in kase. but theyre necessary jobs. some one has to do them.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
# 3
02-05-2013, 02:18 AM
Hmm thx Sharpe, insightful post.

I used to run 2x CRF/CSV, 2x TS/HYT, 2x TT and didn't really notice a huge difference vs current build.

I'm trying to experiment with APB and AuxtoBatt build mentioned in a 9K DPS regent thread.

Having said that, I use AP because i happen to have a couple of purp XII Mag from the DOFF missions. My favourite weapon is actually phaser/polaron and most recently phased polaron (absolutely love this!). I run Polaron on my fleet defiant for PVP.

Pardon me for the Repulsors, it was there because we are trying to beat NWS this week. Its usually GW or Tyken, someitmes even lt.comm tac in there.

Notice my DBB is the chroniton one, so I get the chron torp bonus from the 2set bonus. Ran a DHC there before, wasn't too impressed (still have the adv fleet DHC in my bank). Actually i feel that with BO, a DBB gives me a huge burst dps. With EptA1 and AuxtoBatt, I can recover quickly after a BO.

I know of the Rom BO with +crit chance, I'm actually holding out for the purple BO vs getting the blue one for now. So I definitely know that there's a potential of DPS upside there.

Other than that, I'm just curious how to crank up DPS further. I've seen people running jem'hadar dread hitting 18K DPS before.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 262
# 4
02-05-2013, 02:48 AM
get yourself dhc's with [crth]x2 [crtd] modifiers or straight up [crth]x3. same for turrets. maximize your crit chance and you'll see amazing damage. focus primarily on aoe attacks such as cannon scatter volley and torp spread. when you see the damage done in conjunction with attack patterns alpha and beta, you'll see strings of critical hits that are amazing. with consoles such as the borg consoles, the zero point console and the tachyokinetic console, it's easy to push the bounds.

right now. the purple rommie boff doesn't even have the correct traits. the best one is the blue, male tactical one. it offers a 3.8?% increase to your crit chance. if i remember correctly.

but all in all. like i said in my first post, it's all about the amount of time spend in the match. if your team sucks, then your dps reading will suffer. there's a huge difference between a dps reading for a match that lasts 7 minutes versus 5 minutes on ise. 4m damage in 7 mins = 9.5k dps. 4m damage in 5 mins = 13.3k dps.

increase your dps? get a better team. work on creating time efficient strats and practice them until they flow perfectly. you can have the best skills set, abilities, ship and equipment, but if your team sucks and it takes you 10 minutes to clear an ise instance, there's no way in hell you're cracking 10k dps. it's nearly impossible. not enough unshielded targets to make up for the time loss. i could be wrong, but i doubt it.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 262
# 5
02-05-2013, 02:56 AM
oh, and about the jem dread... it's basically a big, fat escort with 2 hanger bays. with elite scorpion fighters, you can do ridiculous amounts of damage. with 12 elite scorpion fighters, it can easily add an additional 5-8k dps on top of what youre putting out. especially against unshielded targets
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,155
# 6
02-05-2013, 03:31 AM
DPS for the entire encounter isn't accurate since there is too much time not shooting. Just look at your dps against something like a tac cube and compare it before and after changing your build around.
The the DBB and Chroniton should go, and be replaced by 1 more DHC and a quantum or a Romulan plasma torp if you have it. Use 3 Purple doffs with the romulan torp and it will keep spamming and increase DPS a lot more then that chroniton does. Unfortunatley that temporal set wasnt made with STF dps in mind.

Sharpes right, CrtHx3 or combination of crit mods is way to go. use those with romulan boffs and romulan, borg, and temporal consoles to max crit chance and severity.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 255
# 7
02-06-2013, 08:22 AM
As others have mentioned, you should always try to measure DPS by doing something like, having everything ready to go and to type combat log to record, but wait for the end boss before you start recording. This will give you much better idea of your DPS when it's just one target with lots of HP, and you'll have a much easier time seeing who is pulling their weight and who is forgetting to use their tray buffs and the like. You'll also see who earns the "I'm less DPS than a hangar" award time from time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 197
# 8
02-06-2013, 09:12 AM
Sharpe is correct

I use AP DHC's with CrtD mod but I have a lot boosts to my default CrtH before applying Alpha tac and skill tree buffs.

A good way to test various builds, the Starbase 234 mission, in the New Romulus sector....see how long it takes you to defeat the Starbase. I can take down the Starbase with at least 2 minutes left on the timer with my Fleet Defiant.

I am not a big fan of DPS stats, too many variables outside your control, but the Starbase mission is just you and how well you execute with your ship build.

Thx
Locutus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,364
# 9
02-06-2013, 10:51 AM
Personally, I'd rather carry two copies of CSV1 with TS1 rather than just one CSV1 and a TS2. That way they both target 3 enemies, and having the ability to almost always hit 3 targets will up your DPS considerably. I personally constantly have APB up (APB3 with three AP DOffs) and with CSV1 x2 I'm constantly debuffing entire groups with -50% DR, so it isn't even as if my personal DPS costs the team anything.

I agree with the others that you should probably drop the DBB and Chroniton torps. While you can probably spike at least 50k on a crit with the DBB, I'm not a fan of the huge power drain. 60 drain translates to a loss of +120% damage on everything that relies on Weapon Power. Quantum torps will do more damage. Debuff and strip shields from 3 ships with CSV1+APB, followed by a Quantum TS1 to their hull.

Speaking of torpedoes, you shouldn't use any torp consoles - get another Anti-Proton Mag, because it'll affect more of your weapons (3 DHCs + 3 Turrets) which are always effective (vs both shields and hull) and they need to strip the victim's shields before you can effectively use your torpedo (as shields absorb 75% kinetic damage).

Quote:
Originally Posted by l0cutus359 View Post
A good way to test various builds, the Starbase 234 mission, in the New Romulus sector....see how long it takes you to defeat the Starbase. I can take down the Starbase with at least 2 minutes left on the timer with my Fleet Defiant.

I am not a big fan of DPS stats, too many variables outside your control, but the Starbase mission is just you and how well you execute with your ship build.
This is a really, really good tip! I'm in the middle of testing 4 different Plasma loadouts (3 DHC + ERPBA, 3 DHC + Hyper-Plasma torp, 2 DHC + ERPBA + Hyper-Plasma, 2 DHC + Hyper-Plasma + Omega torp) and having trouble getting a baseline. I've gotten to the point when I want to run ISE, CSE, and KSE twice for each loadout and stick them in a spreadsheet.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk

Last edited by darkjeff; 02-06-2013 at 11:10 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 447
# 10
02-06-2013, 01:49 PM
My suggestions:

There are two ways to run the Mobius in my opinion. One is to set it up with a super standard escort setup, i.e. 3-4x DHCs + turrets and go whole-hog DPSh00r. You will be out DPS'd by Bugs, Fleet Defiants, and any other 5 tac console designs. The other is more novel and more fun to play, and can come very close (and occasionally surpass) 5 console escorts while being more versatile for crowd control and other purposes.

The key to higher DPS in the mobius is to use/abuse the temporal abilities. Without the Tipler console from the wells you are losing an important ability (decreasing power recharge times), and in my opinion, not having that console take a huge chunk out of the ship's potential - you almost may as well go vanilla escort. The trick with this ship is to get your ability recharges down to a rediculously low time, and the temporal abilities synergize nicely with the MACO 2 peice set bonus to accomplish this. Even if you can't afford a Wells to get the console, at the very least the Temporal Warfare set ability helps tremendously. With both temporal sets and MACO set bonus, you can use your abilities 2-4 times more often during an STF resulting in a huge DPS increase.

Drop the Manheim console, slot something, anything else there - the ability is not very useful DPS wise, and it gets you killed more often than not, the only reason to use it is for the set bonus if you also have the Well console.

Don't bother with the Chroniton DBB unless you are going for the 3-piece set bonus - sure the boost to Chroniton torp damage is great, but its not worth losing the DHC damage unless you are using the temporal ability (again, power recharge improvement and some additional mobility). If you decide to use the Temporal torpedo, slot it on the rear of the vessel and I recommend have THY to use on it - the high yield version does an AoE slowdown that can be extremely useful for ghetto crowd control (read: nanite spheres when someone forgets 10%). Again, if you decide to use the 3 piece, keep Chronitons in front (preferably with CrtHx2 at least) with TS2 or 3, for both crowd control and DPS.

Drop one of the rear turrets and put in the Kinetic Cutting Beam - higher DPS than a turret and you will get the 2 piece boost with the Borg console. Once you have that 2 piece boost, you can time your beam overloads with the Omega Weapons Booster proc to cut the BO power drain to a negligible level. Also, in my opinion, drop the subspace field modulator for a weapons battery for when Omega doesn't proc. If you have an exocomp Doff that also give a 10% damage boost when popping the weapons battery.

Drop the Chroniton Tac console for another AP Mag regulator - your cannons and beams are firing a lot more than the torpedos and the extra 26-30% damage on them will be of a lot more use.

PERSONALLY, for PvE, drop APO and slot in CRF3. Tractor beams aren't as much of an issue, and 2 cannon abilities are really a must on this ship. If you really need to get out of holds, drop polarize hull in a science spot.

Also, you say you are cycling abilties - this implies that you aren't setting up large damage spikes - STO DPS relies highly on min-maxing. Try and hit everything at once whenever possible - damage spikes can be ludicrous with BO and CRF/CSV+ TS if you have your Attack Patterns running at the same time. For me the Chroniton DBB crits for 30-50k, surprisingly regularly, and with power recharge abilities, that can be a couple times a minute.

All in all, its not a single thing in your build thats nerfing you damage, its a combination of factors based on the fact that your setup is half vanilla escort and half temporal abuse, rather than one of the other. Just my 2 cents
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